K-32 Masterpiece vs. Pre-Model 16

[wyattingraham]

I'm a new member, but have certainly gained much from this site over the last few years as my appreciation for Smiths has grown in step with my taste for things outside of my budget! I read repeatedly that this is a common ailment here, so I'm not alone.

After many years of devoted love to both a K-22 and K-38 I inherited, I decided to set my sights on the more scarce K-32. I have finally found one I'm ready to "do the deal" on, but one detail has me concerned--a serial number from 1958 that would appear to put this "K-32 Masterpiece" one year over and into the "Model 16" era. Due to the uniqueness of dealing with the particular seller, I haven't (and likely won't have) had a chance to simply see if it's stamped "16" or not until I have it shipped to me.

The fine Supica/Nahas and Jinks books aren't really clear (to me) on the matter. Is it possible for this gun to be a pre-16 Masterpiece even if it is serialized to a year after the introduction of the 16?

 

[peyton]

Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place for answers. I will tell you that I thought all of the Model 16 were full lugged and the K-32 had have lug.
This is the K-32 my wife bought for my christmas present. She met the seller at the walmart parking lot.

These are some of my 16-4's. I have never seen the earlier model 16's however.

Bottom line, BUY the K-32!!! You will not be dissappointed!!!

 

[murphydog]

Welcome to the Forum. The K-32s were made in such small numbers that it is very possible a pre-model stamped frame was assembled into a gun after the stamping should have been present. If you can determine from the seller that the SN on the bottom of the grip frame, the barrel flat above the ejector rod and the rear cylinder face all match it is likely a factory original gun, but the only way to be sure is a factory letter. Good luck in your decision and please post photos should you buy it.

 

[DCWilson]

Welcome to the forum.

Serial number tables for older Smith & Wesson revolvers should always be taken as approximations. While the company would mostly assemble guns in serial number order ("mostly," I say), they would ship them in whatever order they happened to take them out of inventory. That means it is possible for earlier serial numbers for a particular model to ship months and sometimes years after later-numbered units of the same model.

A couple of generalizations: if the K-32 you are looking at is a five-screw gun (most easily identified if there is a sideplate screw at the top of the sideplate in front of the hammer) it is 99+% certain to be a Pre-16; engineering changes did away with that screw before model markings were applied.

And second, if the gun is a four-screw gun (no top sideplate screw) with a serial number under K300000, it is probably a pre-32.

Uncertainty creeps in for the range from about K310000 to K365000, where both model-marked and non-model-marked K-32s have been reported. But in general, looking at all Masterpiece models, model marking tends to start showing up regularly in the vicinity of K330000.

I would expect any K-32 with a serial number above K400000 to be model marked MOD 16.

If this is a problematic purchase from an uninformed or suspicious seller, you might want to let this one go and look for a different one. Some acquisitions are just not worth the anxiety. K-32s are uncommon, but they are not flat-out rare.

 

[Allen-frame]

Just for your information. As I understand it;
As the order came through to model stamp existing guns were used from inventory. Some may have been pulled for shipping and model stamped, some were not.
I have a K-22 Masterpiece with serial # K3251** and it is not model marked. This is about the latest to be found.

Either way, whether your K-32 Masterpiece is MOD 16 stamped of not,it will not affect value. Only condition and completeness of the package
will dictate value.

Hope you get it and post pictures of it when you do.

Regards and Welcome
Allen Frame

 

[wyattingraham]

All,

Thank you so much for the quick and insightful replies. These are the kinds of nuggets of information that you simply can't get elsewhere--even in great books and well-informed shops. I really appreciate it.

After reading each of your replies, I'm feeling much better about this particular piece that, numbered at K319***, sits squarely in what DC Wilson suggests is that "uncertainty" zone. Even knowing that, you all have provided more than enough info about the practical sequencing of production and enthusiasm for the model (whichever one it turns out to be) to move forward.

And on the seller, he's neither suspicious nor uniformed, but rather famous--not necessarily a superior claim to the first two options. Once I get the gun in my hands, I'll post a photo to be sure (thanks for your photos and for your note, Peyton).

 

[Hammerdown]

Hello wyattingraham
Due to the K-32 being very Unique and one of the Hardest to find of the K-Trio, it really does not matter of it is a Pre-stamped model or a model marked 16 revolver, they are all rare, and very hard to locate. Here is my K-32 that is a Five screw variety that shipped Long before they started stamping model numbers in them being 1951 with it's box, paperwork and Tools. Good luck on securing the K-32, Keep us Posted on it, they are a True Gem to find...

 

[fyimo]

Good luck on your quest and post pictures when you get it.

 

[X18Z]

My brother-in-law just inherited several pistols and shotguns. Among them were a: late 60s early 70s S&W K-38 and K-22 "Target Masterpiece", a Colt MK III NM 38 special mid range and as you were discussing a 1955 K-32pre-16.The first three were really clean and would be 98s instead of 95s if he had the boxes. The blueing was more faded on the K-32 but no gouges or scratches and had the newer S&W grips, making it a 90. We took it to Cabla's near my house in Hoffman Estates, IL as he was looking to sell them. Though the offer was a bit low but they were very up front about pay 65% of Blue Book and when the guy was looking at the K-16 he said he wasn't sure about somethings and wanted to get it right so they had their S&W expert look at it the next day. He verified it as a 1955 pre-16 and even bumped the price up on the 14 and 17 to $260 and $275. They offered $1350 for the K32 pre 16 and $900 for the Colt. I told him not to get into much of a hurry to sell. Two days later he went to another dealer just west of there and inquired about the 3 S&Ws. They asked him what he thought they were worth and checking to see how up front they were he said he had no idea. With that they offered him $200 for all three. He justed said he would have to check with his brother and walked out. I shoot at their range as they have 3 eight laners but I'll never sell there and may not even buy. I told him to maybe try a gun show but he wanted to sell. He went back to Cabela's and sold the K-32. I thought about buying it myself but I shoot not collect. I had just bought a Glock 17 engraved with our Special Forces crest and Trijicon sights and want to get a Kimber Super Carry Custom HD so it was out of my budget. I did buy the other two S&Ws, the K22 and K38 for $550 with, ammo and extras and offered him first shot at buying them back if I decide to sell.
Well anyways if someone is interested in a K-32 pre 16 it should be available through Cabela's soon. They said they would be asking about $2000.

 

[X18Z]

Disregard above post.

I was at Cabela's today and the K-32 already sold for $2100 and my brother-in-law just now found the box.

 

[gmiller0737]

Boxes bring big$ too a S&W 41 box recently went for $190 on eBay!

 

[Hammerdown]

My They offered $1350 for the K32 pre 16 . He went back to Cabela's and sold the K-32. I thought about buying it myself but I shoot not collect. I did buy the other two S&Ws, the K22 and K38 for $550 with, ammo and extras.

I was at Cabela's today and the K-32 already sold for $2100 and my brother-in-law just now found the box.

Hello X18Z
I Suppose that I don't have to tell you that "you made a very Big Mistake" by not buying that K-32 Pre-16 your brother had that he about Gave away to Cabellas for what he sold it for. The Elusive K-32 is "the Crown Jewel" and with it's box it would have been the complete package. Most guys search a Life time for one and still do not find them and all ready having the other two Target Masterpieces it would have rounded out the complete Target Masterpiece Trio for you. It took me 25 Years to put together my K-Trio Target Masterpiece series and None of mine will very be offered for sale or trade, they just do not come along often, and I am sure long down the road you will Certainly have some remorse over not working out a deal with your brother on that K-32 as you could have had the K-Masterpiece Trio for less than they sold that K-32 alone For....

 

[PMRet]

I was at Cabela's today and the K-32 already sold for $2100 and my brother-in-law just now found the box.

If possible, your brother-in-law should find out who bought the K32 and offer to sell him the box. He could at least recoup a small amount of the money he lost by selling the gun to Cabelas (instead of here), and I'm sure whoever bought the gun would be more then happy to buy the box.

 

[X18Z]

Hello X18Z
I Suppose that I don't have to tell you that "you made a very Big Mistake" by not buying that K-32 Pre-16 your brother had that he about Gave away to Cabellas for what he sold it for. The Elusive K-32 is "the Crown Jewel" and with it's box it would have been the complete package. Most guys search a Life time for one and still do not find them and all ready having the other two Target Masterpieces it would have rounded out the complete Target Masterpiece Trio for you. It took me 25 Years to put together my K-Trio Target Masterpiece series and None of mine will very be offered for sale or trade, they just do not come along often, and I am sure long down the road you will Certainly have some remorse over not working out a deal with your brother on that K-32 as you could have had the K-Masterpiece Trio for less than they sold that K-32 alone For....

You are probably right. I'm thinking that road to regret is not that long. He sold it before I new it and could swing it.

 

[wyattingraham]

Folks,

I'm really sheepish that it took me so long to get this in hand, then photograph it semi-properly and post it here for you. After a lot of conversation, I do have my very own K-32 Masterpiece in hand and it's a beauty. If you don't think so, probably best not to mention it within my earshot.



To solve the original question--this does not have a Model 16 stamping. Also, there is no serial number on the box (which is in terrific shape, although missing the "guts").

Thanks again for the encouragement and advise. I'm so glad to have it and will hold on to it for as long as I'm meant to have it.

 

[DCWilson]

I agree with you, Wyatt -- that's a beauty. Congratulations!

 

[Hondo44]

I agree, it's a beauty. In half that shape it would still be a beauty. Since your gun is on the "cusp" so-to-speak, serial number locations started dropping off by the time they were model number stamped. Is your's serial still numbered in all 6 locations or just butt and grip or something in between?

Great find.

 

[PMRet]

Congratulations, that is a beauty. Having recently acquired a K-32 myself, I know exactly how you feel. When you get time, be sure to post a picture of it with the K-22 and K-38 you mentioned in your original post.

 

[wyattingraham]

Thanks all. I will definitely try and get a group shot together and posted soon. It's a funny thing though, how the new K-32 reflects on the original -22 and -38. I fell in love with the K guns when I was about 7 and first allowed to go into my granddad's gun closet for myself to pick out what I wanted to shoot that day. I invariably picked the K-22, and later the K-38 as well, because they were, to me, "cowboy" guns--real revolvers that I could use, along with a Winchester '06, to defend our picnic area against tin can marauders. At that time, I didn't know guns came in collectible boxes, that holstering and re-holstering on every cycle would lead to muzzle wear and drag lines or that I'd ever care. Thankfully, I had plenty of guidance to always clean them, inside and out, so they're in great shape but thirty years on, these are now the "old guys" compared to the K-32.

I still gravitate toward shooting them as often as anything, so I'll keep doing that. I guess I need to start the search for some clean companions for the -32!

 

[PMRet]

I guess I need to start the search for some clean companions for the -32!

Or...you COULD take the K-32 out and shoot it 'til it looks more like your well used K-22 and K-38! Just kidding...sort of...seriously, I hope you take it out and enjoy shooting it. I had this one at the range within a week after I got it, and it's already my favorite revolver.