late 5-screw K22 features

[linde]

I’ve been a K22 fan for some time and own a few of the early 5-screw examples. At the Tulsa gun show last month I brought home a late 5-screw K22 Masterpiece s/n K254351 with a March 1956 ship date.

I’ve researched several earlier threads and learned a few things:
• a March/April 1956 ship date for 5-screw K22s is late, but not that unusual
• the high-speed hammer did appear on K22s as late as ’55 – ‘56
• the bright blue finish is correct as it was being standardized in the late 5-screw ’55 – ’56 period

What I haven’t found is a discussion of the barrel profile change . . . from the tapered barrel with narrow rib to a straight-walled barrel and wide rib. From my experience with the early K22s, I learned that there was a subtle change in barrel and rib profiles with the change from 1/10” to 1/8” sight blade, but I wasn’t aware of the later change to what appears to be a “heavy” version. What can the knowledgeable folks here tell me about this change?

Here are some pictures that attempt to show the barrel and rib profile from several perspectives.

I have noticed that both the tapered and the straight-walled barrel profiles appear inter-mixed in the late 5-screw period. For others interested in these late 5-screw K22 variations, here are two earlier threads I found interesting and very informative.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...12-late-5-screw-k22-masterpiece-now-pics.html

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/167452-someone-said-its-k22.html

Thanks for any insights you can provide,

Russ

 

[DCWilson]

The first Masterpiece revolvers (K-22, K-32, K-38) were produced with tapered barrels and narrow ribs, but their actual loaded weight varied by a few ounces. About 1950 the company introduced the balanced-weight guns, whose barrel design had been reconfigured so that loaded weight of any Masterpiece revolver would be the same. This was done as an accommodation to the target shooters of the day, who wanted as consistent a feel as possible when they swapped revolvers for different caliber competitions.

For several years S&W offered both the light barrel and heavy barrel versions, and you could order the one you preferred. But by the mid to late 1950s, the original design had been allowed to drift into extinction and only the weight-matched designs were available.

There really isn't a particular serial number or date on which the transition was made. There is just a big fuzzy zone where things were all one way at the beginning and all the other way at the end.

 

[linde]

David,

Thank you for your reply and insights. I'm always impressed by your knowledge and willingness to share.

I’m somewhat familiar with the early ‘50s evolution of the Masterpiece series and have enjoyed collecting examples of the K38 with both the early tapered barrels and the later “heavy” barrels. My understanding was that the K22 became the 38.5 ounce benchmark to which the K32 and K32 were matched.

I don’t know much about the K32s but understand that the both the tapered and heavy version K38s were available from about January 1950 until approximately September 1953 when the tapered barrel variation was phased out. I am not aware of any such change in the K22 since it was the benchmark.

What I expected to hear is the “equal” weight/balance Masterpiece concept went by the wayside at some point . . . probably in the ’55-’56 timeframe . . . and that the later model-marked K22s had a completely re-designed barrel profile.

Russ

edit to add: I weighed an early K22 s/n K33977 and it weighed the benchmark 38.5 ounces. This late 5-screw weighs 40.5 ounces. Both are loaded weights with magna stocks.

 

[DCWilson]

Thanks, Russ. Clearly there is more to know about the development of the Masterpiece configurations than I thought there was.

I have weighed my non-model-marked Masterpieces in the past, but possibly none of mine were made late enough to catch the heaviest variation you mentioned. I don't have any model-marked Masterpieces.

When I need to make as many additions and corrections to earlier comments as I have in the last couple of days, it's time for me to take a quiet pill and chill out. It's tough enough for people to understand something without having some guy shouting out information that is either a little off target or flat-out wrong.

 

[linde]

David,

Don’t be hard on yourself . . . your comments are always welcome and you can’t be expected to remember everything . . . although you come pretty close.

Like me, your observations are based on pre-model marked K22s . . . since neither one of us has a model 17 to look at.

I’ve taken some better pictures that contrast the two barrel rib profiles . . . hope they help someone shed some light so we can learn together.

Russ

 

[larryofcc]

I started collecting "K" frames August of 2010 and so far have done real well. What I do not have is a HB pre M17 K-22. I have two with tapered bbls, but I am now looking for a 5 screw K22 HB, and there does not seem to be many out there. It was hard enough finding the two tapered K-38's in my collection, now I am finding it difficult to find a 5 screw HB K-22. Can anyone out there direct me to a nice 98%++ revolver, all matching of course. Attached pic of a K22 shipped 7-22-53 with a target hammer. Thanks, Big Larry

 

[Jebus35745]

Nice gun Russ, hope you get some of the answers you're looking for. Ever shoot the 5" K-22 you had made by Bowen? Seems the bbl diameters were mixed into the early 50's but most were the hvy bbl after 51-52. Larry

 

[PMRet]

Over the last several months I've looked at many 5 screw K-22's with serial numbers that fall into the 1955 time frame according to SCSW, and the vast majority of them have had the narrow rib/tapered barrel. Very, very few have been the heavy barrel version.

Several months ago I decided to put together a set of 5 screw masterpiece revolvers. My plan was to quickly grab a K-22 and K-38, and then hope to find a K-32 somewhere down the line. As luck would have it, I stumbled onto a K-32 almost immediately, and of course thought I had it made. It had a 1955 serial number and a heavy barrel, so I needed the same in a K-22. I'm still lookin...

 

[Jim Fuller]

Over the last several months I've looked at many 5 screw K-22's with serial numbers that fall into the 1955 time frame according to SCSW, and the vast majority of them have had the narrow rib/tapered barrel. Very, very few have been the heavy barrel version.

Several months ago I decided to put together a set of 5 screw masterpiece revolvers. My plan was to quickly grab a K-22 and K-38, and then hope to find a K-32 somewhere down the line. As luck would have it, I stumbled onto a K-32 almost immediately, and of course thought I had it made. It had a 1955 serial number and a heavy barrel, so I needed the same in a K-22. I'm still lookin...

You're killin me here. how in heavens name can you look at so many 5 screw Masterpieces and K series? Would you please adopt me and make me your Sherpa pay a few months. Of course I get your crumbs.

 

[PMRet]

You're killin me here. how in heavens name can you look at so many 5 screw Masterpieces and K series? Would you please adopt me and make me your Sherpa pay a few months. Of course I get your crumbs.

Hey, didn't say I bought 'em, just said I looked...

 

[Jim Fuller]

Hey, didn't say I bought 'em, just said I looked...

Point taken. So maybe it was me coveting vicariously thru you. Does that make me a worse sinner than I already am?

 

[DCWilson]

Russ, I'm still struggling with terminology here. Does "straight walled barrel" in this case mean "cylindrical barrel," or are the straight sides still tapered slightly? I can't tell from the photos here and elsewhere.

If you could mike the barrel diameter on your gun both at the muzzle and at the point where it abuts the frame, that would help a lot.

I have two narrow-rib K-22s from 1947 and 1948, and a wide rib K-22 from late 1953. The barrel of the wide-rib gun still has a bell-shaped flare at the frame, but the barrel walls at the muzzle look to be about the same thickness as in your muzzle photo. I'm wondering if the straight-wall barrels you are discussing are still tapered barrels, but with a straight line from one end to the other instead of the bell-shaped flare.

 

[linde]

David,

Excellent point . . . my “straight-walled” terminology was misleading . . . at best. With the possible exception of the 4” Dayton guns, it appears all barrels are tapered to some degree from frame to muzzle.

The straight walled portion of the barrel I was referring to is the first ¾ of an inch from the frame. Here are the barrel diameter measurements of three different K22s that show the contrast. The first I believe is prior to the change to equal weight . . . the second is well after the change took place . . . and the third is just prior to eliminating the 5th screw.

K 33977 - at frame .700” - ¾” from frame .625” - at muzzle .572”
K206759 - at frame .720” - ¾” from frame .635” - at muzzle .588” (5” length)
K254351 - at frame .730” - ¾” from frame .720” - at muzzle .592”

I suspect the +/- 10 thousandths difference in the first two is within normal tolerances of the forging dies. Here is a comparison picture of the first inch or two from the frame.

The width of the barrel rib tells an even greater difference.

K 33977 at frame .275”
K206759 at frame .295”
K254351 at frame .448”

I believe the third one is simply the precursor of the Model 17 profile . . . but I’ve never seen the change discussed. Thanks again for clarifying and your insights.

Russ

 

[stroker]

Late K-22 features

Excellent information guys. I too have been looking for an early K-22 serialed between K240,000 and the end of 5-screw frames at serial #K260,000. These guns all seen to be bright finished and HB models. They have seemed to dry up. Good luck in your searches.
Stroker

 

[linde]

Stroker,

Thanks for your comments. The reason they aren't very common may be because there weren't many 5-screw K22s made with this barrel profile. In my brief search, the K240000 serial numbered K22s that I've found (or seen posted) have the "tapered" barrels. The only "heavy" versions I've found are those in the K250000 range . . . and they all seem to have a March/April 1956 ship date which is late for a 5-screw.

Does anyone here have a K240000 (or earlier) K22 with the heavy barrel . . . or have a K250000 5-screw with the heavy barrel that shipped earlier (or later) than March/April 1956?

Russ

Excellent information guys. I too have been looking for an early K-22 serialed between K240,000 and the end of 5-screw frames at serial #K260,000. These guns all seen to be bright finished and HB models. They have seemed to dry up. Good luck in your searches.
Stroker

 

[Rigmover]

Hi linde Heres mine its also like yours but a real late Pre-17 5 screw Serial 266003. Anyone have approx shipping date.Heres some pics of it..

 

[linde]

Hi linde Heres mine its also like yours but a real late Pre-17 5 screw Serial 266003. Anyone have approx shipping date.Heres some pics of it.

Rigmover,

Whow . . . that is certainly the latest s/n 5-screw K22 Masterpiece that I've seen or heard of . . . and not surprising that it has the heavy barrel profile.

Based on known ship dates of other Masterpieces, I'm going to estimate a June-July 1956 production date, although individual ship dates can and do vary depending on demand . . . and, of course, how close it was to the vault door when the shipping clerk came to retrieve one to fill an order.

Thanks for sharing . . . you've added greatly to our collective knowledge base

Russ

 

[Redmond]

My pre-17 5 screw K258887 shipped April 27, 1956 to Jurek Bros. in Greenfield, MA, per Mr Jinks. It is similar to Rigmover's, but with factory Target stocks.

 

[PMRet]

Another thing I've noticed is that many of the 5 screw heavy barrel examples I've seen have target hammers, while very few of the tapered barrel guns do. Maybe bullseye shooters who ordered the heavy barrel because of the standardized weight also preferred the wide hammer?

 

[Engine49guy]

A while back someone posted a copy of the 1950 circular showing both 6" K22 versions advertised together ,
The wider rib version was labled the "Heavy" Masterpiece.

Prior to that both the "Target" and "Combat" K22 (Models 17 and 18) had the exact same same frame design.

While the Heavy Masterpiece first supplemented the earlier version it then later supplanted the tapered barrel 6" version.
What is interesting to note is that the tapered frame style was not completely discontinued until 1985 when the Model 18 line was dropped in favour of a 4" version of the 17-5.