Later history of the 6" K-frame in LAPD service?

[.455_Hunter]

It's my understanding that the general patrol members went to the 4" in the early 70's, including cutting down of existing 6" Model 14 (and maybe K-38?) barrels. However, some Model 68's were used starting the 80's, and footage from the 1997 North Hollywood incident absolutely shows a few crusty old coots with their 6" wheelguns. It's interesting to note that these sage veterans landed a far higher shot percentage on target (based on slugs recovered from the perps' body armor) that their Beretta armed compatriots, but that's another topic.

Anyway, does anybody have a good grasp on the 6" guns being on-duty in the 80's, 90's and maybe 00's?

Thanks!

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

LAPD started issuing the Beretta 92FS in the June 1989 Police Academy class. Everyone hire after that date has to carry a pistol.

If you were issued a revolver prior their was a "Grandfather Clause" where you could continue with the revolver until you retired.

Those old coots at the 1997 North Hollywood shootout could have as little as eight years on the job.

LAPD approved any Colt or S&W revolver that was chambered in .38 Special but only for hires prior to 1989.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

The S&W 67-1 was the last revolver issued to Police Cadets in May 1989. Upon completion of Probation you can buy a six inch revolver made by Colt or S&W as long as it was chambered in .38 Special.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Very interesting- what is clear is that the policies leading to the great 6" purge of the early 70's were later rescinded or at least revised.

I wonder what % of officers who started with the 4" decided to go with a 6" once they could make that choice? When did that become an option?

The duty load was typically the Remington 125 gr SJHP +P, correct?

 

[greenrunner]

I went through the LAPD Academy in 1981 and was issued a M67. I don't recall if it was a 67 or 67-1, but it was a Franken gun with stainless front sight, black rear sight, and an 18K serial number. I shot DX (distinguished expert) after the Academy so wanted to be like all the cool guys who were DXs and had M14s. I bought one and had to buy a 6" Safety Speed clamshell holster (the Safety Speed clamshell was the greatest police holster ever produced, but that is a subject for another day) and it was just too long. I eventually sold the gun and holster to a former academy classmate. I did not shoot any better with the M14 over the 67. I think the M14 was basically a symbol for serious shooters on LAPD, but it was a beautiful gun nonetheless. I wish I still had both my City-issue 67 and personal 14.

 

[greenrunner]

Ammo

The duty load was typically the Remington 125 gr SJHP +P, correct?

IIRC we carried Federal ammo? I have a vague memory of having a red Federal box of spare ammo in my equipment bag? It was +P and semi-jacketed but was not hollowpoint. Everytime Chief Gates tried to get the Police Commission to approve hollowpoint ammo the LA Times would report that the LAPD wanted to carry dum-dum bullets. LA Times was way ahead of the now-common journalistic practice of blatant partisanship -- they just made stuff up and printed it as fact.

 

[.455_Hunter]

IIRC we carried Federal ammo? I have a vague memory of having a red Federal box of spare ammo in my equipment bag? It was +P and semi-jacketed but was not hollowpoint.

The Federal 125 gr JSP +P was absolutely an available duty load of the time. For what it's worth, one of the original Marshall and Sanow books had the picture of a recovered bullet from that load in an LE shooting (maybe LAPD?) and were "surprised" it expanded, but did note it was a one-shot stop. The overall data and statistics in those books may now be considered suspect, but the individual shooting anecdotes and projectiles pictures are still interesting to this day.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

The Federal 125 gr JHP +P was the L.A. County Sheriff duty round. The Federal 125 gr JSP +P was the LAPD duty round.

The City of L.A. at the time was so anti JHP when they first approved the 9mm they had Federal load a 95 gr JSP. It was a very poor manstopper.

 

[jimmyj]

My career was 1962-2007.
I started with a four inch but soon changed to a six inch.
Qualifications were 3, 7, 15, 25, and 50 yards. (50 yards-12 rounds prone)
Most cop shooters carried six inch.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I think when agencies dropped the 50 yard line as part of qualifications that is when the four inch got very popular with officers. So maybe 1980 or so.

 

[Doug M.]

Scott Reitz has written some stuff about this. I have his (first?) book and it has a lot of neat info.