Light strikes with 686 Competitor

[rhodesengr]

I would like to get some input on light strikes with a 686 Competitor model. I was in an event that requires about 100 rounds. Maybe five of my rounds didn't fire. Some of those fired with a second stroke. One wouldn't fire at all.

If it matters, I was shooting double action.

The revolver is quite new, purchased new earlier this year, and probably has less than 300 round total fired through it.

These are rounds I made myself with CCI primers, Starline brass, and Accurate #5 powder. I showed the FTF round to someone with more experience and he pointed out that the dent from the firing pin looked shallow compared to rounds that fired normally.

I am rather new to revolvers and their inner workings. What I would like to know is can anything be done to improve the firing reliability? Harder strike? Longer strike? Is there an adjustment that can be made? Do I need a different firing pin? Different spring somewhere? The gun is completely stock and I have never taken it apart.

Edit: I did a search and found some videos about the tension screw being loose. I took the grip off and the screw was fully tight. So that won't help in my case.

 

[75Vette]

The first thing I'd check would be the main spring screw located on the lower front side of the grip frame. I had a gun that the screw started backing out of after a few rounds. Tighten it up and if it continues, add a drop of purple lok-tite to it.

Well. I see as I was typing my response you edited original post. Hopefully someone will chime in with another answer for you.

 

[SW Gun Guy]

I can not come close to an answer. Don't be offended, but others that answer might note these are loaded at home.

 

[cmj8591]

If the screw is tight, it is possible that it was filed a bit too short. This will require that the screw be replaced. It is also possible that the main spring that they use to get that nice, silky trigger pull is just a bit light. That can also be replaced with a stiffer spring. Before I did any of this, if the gun is only going to be used on the range, I would fool around with some different primers. CCI tend towards being a little harder. Try some loads with Federal primers if you can find some. If you are not going to bet your life on this gun, then swapping out to a softer primer will improve reliability and keep the nice trigger pull. If you are going to use the gun for home defense, then swap out the main spring and screw and make sure it works with everything.

 

[USBP SW]

One thing you could look at is the overall length of the strain screw and compare it to the standard 686 strain screw. Incidentally, fired empties always show a deeper firing pin strike, the firing round sets back against the firing pin. You could check by placing a shim between the strain screw and the leaf spring to see if it improves the ignition problem.

 

[Doug44]

First off try a shim between the strain screw and spring. If that cures your problem keep using it until you use up the CCI primers. Look for some Federal primers. I see someone else suggested the shim. There is also longer firing pins you can try.

 

[rhodesengr]

Thanks guys. The screw is stock. It is essentially a brand new gun and I am the only owner.

I found an article (linked below) that mentions his gun was less reliable with CCI Magnum primers. As I am sure you all know, SP primers have been hard to find but I did happen on some CCI SPM primers. Last month when I did the same event it was 100% CCI SP primers and I had no FTFs. This month, it was a mix of rounds with the CCI550 and what was left of the CCI500. Unfortunately, I didn't keep them separated so I don't know if it was a primer related problem.

Now I have some Federal SP primers and I see it was mentioned here to try Federal primers.

So I will just see how it goes with those. If I still have problems, I can look into putting a primer on the screw tip, different screw, or a different spring.

I see people use a set screw to get more tension but does anyone make a screw that is actually a little longer? Who makes stiffer springs?

Thanks again for the replies.

Spring Rates and Trigger Pull Weights

 

[rhodesengr]

some additional question based on all the great replies:

Who makes the longer firing pins? Could someone post a link?

Same question about a heavier spring. I would like to get a bead on the possible parts.

Several mentioned adding a shim. I have seen the idea of using a primer cup. If I use shim stock, what thickness would be good to try and what holds it in place? Just the pressure of the strain screw and friction with the spring?

 

[Protocall_Design]

First off, check the firing pin length. Anything less than .495 won't be reliable. If it's shorter than that, get a longer firing pin. I prefer the Power Custom ones. Welcome to Power Custom

Second, the Federal primers will be way better than CCI. Winchester primers are the next best after Federal.

You can see how much force the mainspring is putting on the hammer by hooking a trigger pull gage under the hammer, then pull the trigger and hold it back all the way. Gently let the hammer and trigger gage hook rest against the frame. See what the reading is on the gage just as the hook comes off the frame. For Federal primers you will need something in the 40 to 44 ounce range. For Winchester, around 50 to 54 oz., and for CCI, around 64 to 70. These numbers are only approximate because every gun and spring, strain screw, etc. are different.

I have a 686 Competitor and it has a very nice 6 lb. DA trigger that is 100% with Federal primers. Those are the only primers I use.

 

[rhodesengr]

well I guess I popped my cherry doing some disassembly on my 686. The firing pin looks to be .491

What is the spec length? If I get a new one from S&W will it be longer, like .495? I mean, I don't mind getting one from Power Custom but if its supposed to .495 or more from S&W, I want to get them to send me one.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Normally, .495 is the longest you'll see from the factory, and that is the minimum length you want. Any firing pin you get from S&W will be a roll of the dice as to what the actual length is. With the majority of them less than max, the odds are against you.

Most of them are somewhat shorter, as you have seen. The aftermarket ones go up to .510 + or - a little. A length of around .505 seems about ideal in my testing. They all vary some in length because of manufacturing tolerances.

 

[Jason Demond]

Most of your PC guns are just regular production guns with XLT trim. Your gun is a gun that probably left the factory with light weight springs instead of anyone actually paying any attention to any kind of trigger work.

You more than likely have a light weight mainspring, and those are known for light primer strikes.

 

[Nightowl]

For what it's worth, I would start with replacing the firing pin according to Protocol Designs recommendation. I don't know of anyone more knowledgeable about smithing smiths!!

A lot of good advice above, but from the few examples of new guns I have seen is that the standard Smith mainspring is very strong. Some have a ribbed mainspring, and they are not as strong.

My most recent experience with CCI primers is that they were tight in the primer pocket and very hard to seat fully into the primer pocket. Primers not fully seated may not ignite on the first hit. In addition to being harder to ignite to begin with, could cause more problems. Work on one potential solution at a time until you get 100% ignition. Welcome to the S&W world.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

For me, the performance center ribbed mainspring, has given me issues-especially with the use of CCI small primers.

I've found that the hardest being the stock(standard mainspring), next weakest is the Wilson combat mainspring, then the ribbed mainspring IS the absolute weakest of the bunch.

Sometimes for me the fix has been a Wilson mainspring or an extended firing pin. Cylinder and slide has them and are .511"

 

[rhodesengr]

For what it's worth, I would start with replacing the firing pin according to Protocol Designs recommendation.

Already ordered and I just put his front sight on a few days ago.

I don't know what spring is in there. It's not ribbed though. I don't have a trigger gauge at this point so can't measure it. I have a feeling that the new pin and Fed primers should keep my rounds going bang.

Also, much appreciate the welcome. Very helpful replies here. I am new but I learn fast

I will be away for a while so won't have much chance to test things for a few weeks.

EDIT: I looked again, and I do have the ribbed main spring. I just didn't know what to look for so TY for the photos. So if I replace with the standard spring, it will hit harder but have more trigger pull? I use this in a double action event so increasing the pull probably won't help me hit the plates better. Long Pin and Fed primers will be in play next time.

 

[rhodesengr]

I am having some trouble finding an actual parts diagram for the 686 Competitor. I have found diagrams for the standard 686. I can't find a part number for the ribbed main spring. Is it just the Wolfe spring they are using?

I only found parts diagrams on sites like MGW. Does S&W have parts diagram on their site somewhere?

 

[BLUEDOT37]

As mentioned there can be various reason for light strikes but far & away the marginal length firing pins that get installed at the factory have been the problem in my revolvers.

I have some revolvers with "short" firing pins & they work happily along. Others won't.

The Apex FPs run about .501" & the C&S run about .510" long.

In one revolver I pre-emptively installed a C&S FP which would occasionally get stuck in the fired primer. A factory FP ended up working just fine in it.

I use CCI primers exclusively & I have the factory installed hammer springs in all my revolvers, with an occasional APEX or C&S FP, and I don't have any problems igniting the CCI primers.

.

 

[ReloadforFun]

Are you sure the primers were completely seated? About the only time a cartridge will fire on a second firing pin strike is when the first was cushioned by a high primer moving under the impact.

I know the term "high primer" foir a revolver commonly implies problems with cylinder rotation, but if the primers were flush, but needed to be a few thousandths deeper, it could happen.

Generally, a completely seated primer should be some 0.003" to 0.005" below flush with the case.

 

[Protocall_Design]

I am having some trouble finding an actual parts diagram for the 686 Competitor. I have found diagrams for the standard 686. I can't find a part number for the ribbed main spring. Is it just the Wolfe spring they are using?

I only found parts diagrams on sites like MGW. Does S&W have parts diagram on their site somewhere?

The only difference between a regular 686 and a Competitor one is the barrel. A regular 686 diagram covers the Comp one.

The ribbed mainspring is the #1 from Wolff. Their #2 version is a slightly bent #1. I still like the original S&W mainsprings the best of all.

 

[rhodesengr]

Are you sure the primers were completely seated?

No, I can't be sure. Now I know to check. I used an RCBS hand primer. Maybe I need to make sure I squeeze firmly to full seat the primer. I will on my next batch.