I picked up another box of this winchester white box ammo, and when I talked to the guy at the store, who is a retired police officer of 30 years, he told me what I got is overstocked police duty round, and he also told me the FBI uses this same ammo. Its basically winchester PDX1 and they are in fact black talons. Thing that has me worried, this is a FBI police duty round, and if I ever have to use it, would I get in trouble. These rounds have very sharp serrations and are very nasty. They make a 3 inch cavity, and penetrate just under 13 inches on gel tests. I only paid 19 bucks for a box of 50. Tomorrow I will run one box though my .40 shield to be sure of any issues. Thanks all.
Little worried
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MichiganScott
Member
Carry it with pride and good conscience. It's legal to own and use.
If you ever have to fire in self defense you can tell truthfully tell anyone that asks, including the investigating officers, that you carry the same round the FBI uses instead of loading your own. There will be no question about the ammo being safe and intended to "end a fight, not kill or maim" as has been claimed in court by over zealous DA's.
If you ever have to fire in self defense you can tell truthfully tell anyone that asks, including the investigating officers, that you carry the same round the FBI uses instead of loading your own. There will be no question about the ammo being safe and intended to "end a fight, not kill or maim" as has been claimed in court by over zealous DA's.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
The FBI issue .40 round is the Winchester Bonded 180 grain, code Q4355. I'm looking at a box of it right now.
You'd be no more likely to get in trouble for using it than any other round.
You'd be no more likely to get in trouble for using it than any other round.
OK Hog Shooter
Member
It'll put your eye out!!!!
StatesRightist
Member
Think about the argument, you shot a guy with a bullet that was intended to "really" hurt him VS what?. I've never heard of that working for a DA. Worry more about proper shoot, don't shoot decisions, that's where you will rise or fall. JMO.
Q4369 That is the number on the box. I see some saying pdx1 but I looked at that round on a video and its not. I looked at ranger t and that's a lot closer. Wish I could take a picture of the round to show you guys. The ranger t are a whole lot more wicked than the pdx1 which i'm not very impressed after the gel test.
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MichiganScott
Member
It's an argument used by Mas Ayoob when discussing carrying handloads vs. factory ammo for self defense. He claims it has been used in otherwise virtuous shootings to turn the jury against the shooter. He spends a lot more time in front of juries giving expert testimony than most of us. I'll take his word on it.
Not me. I pack reloads.
And aw-aay we go!!!
This.
Has.
Never.
Happened.
Carry what you will. Carry what you're most comfortable with for whatever reason suits you.
Please do not advise someone else on what they should or should not carry based on rumors and innuendo.
Thank you.
To the OP, sorry for the digression. Someone brought an age-old argument into your discussion and I took the bait. The round you have chosen is legal in the U.S. and you should not worry as to it's effectiveness. If you are forced to defend yourself, the brand or style of ammunition - as long as it is legally obtained - will have absolutely nothing to do with the ensuing report.
Stay safe.
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StatesRightist
Member
.......and that applies here how? He's talking about factory loads. Did you miss that point?
Please !!!!!
Enough of what this Ayoob would or would'nt do on here.
If you're gonna have to shoot a bad guy, heaven forbid, you want him down for the count right..... End of discussion.....
To choose a carry loading because you "might" be looked down upon by a jury is ludicrious at best.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6....
Chuck
Richard Simmons
Member
According to John Ross this is an urban myth and Ayoob has not seen any cases where this has occured.
Using Handloads For Self Defence
papajohn428
Member
To the OP: I have done water jug and wetpack tests of both the rounds mentioned above, and both have done quite well. I'd buy whichever one you and the gun shoot the best. 
To the OP: I have done water jug and wetpack tests of both the rounds mentioned above, and both have done quite well. I'd buy whichever one you and the gun shoot the best.
Funny thing about that last comment. If I can ever get my s&w shield to stop dropping mags on me, it shoots everything I put down the barrel, like my glock, just my glock don't dump mags on me every time I fire lol.
Texas Star
US Veteran
I very much doubt that the bullet tears a three-inch hole in tissue.
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