Loads for 45 Colt mountain gun

[andyo5]

I just bought a S&W 45 Colt mountain gun to add to my stable of Rugers in 45 Colt. I understand that it will not stand the same loads as my Rugers will. My current load involves a 250 Ranier flat point plated bullet over 13.6g of Blue Dot. Velocity in my 7.5" Blackhawk is a bit over 1000 fps and around 950 fps in my 4" Redhawk. Is this too strong for my mountain gun? I believe this load exceeds SAAMI specs for standard 45 Colt loads.
What would be a maximum Unique load for this bullet in my mountain gun?
Thanks.

 

[andyo5]

I just bought a S&W 45 Colt mountain gun to add to my stable of Rugers in 45 Colt. I understand that it will not stand the same loads as my Rugers will. My current load involves a 250 Ranier flat point plated bullet over 13.6g of Blue Dot. Velocity in my 7.5" Blackhawk is a bit over 1000 fps and around 950 fps in my 4" Redhawk. Is this too strong for my mountain gun? I believe this load exceeds SAAMI specs for standard 45 Colt loads.
What would be a maximum Unique load for this bullet in my mountain gun?
Thanks.

 

[Ron H.]

Sir, I'm not familiar with the bullet you mention--is it lead or jacketed?

FWIW, Alliant lists a max of 9.5 grains of Unique with the Speer 250-grain lead semi-wadcutter, but only 7.8 grains of Unique with the Speer 250 (jacketed) Gold Dot hollowpoint. How much of the difference is because of the jacket and how much is from the hollowpoint (maybe it seats deeper in the case?) I don't know.

Also FWIW, I've shot a lot of cast lead 250s with 8.0 and 8.5 grains of Unique with no ill effects on my 25-9. 8.0 is somewhat smoky and soots up the gun bigtime; 8.5 is better in this regard.

BTW, lots of people complain about Unique loads being dirty. In my limited experience, that's true with light to "standard" loads, but when you bump the powder charge up a little, sometimes as little as half a grain, the smoke and soot diminish greatly.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[Dale53]

andyo5;
Here is the "real skinny" on the S&W Model 25 and 625 in .45 Colt:

http://www.customsixguns.com/w...vyweight_bullets.htm

Scroll down to the bottom for information specifically for the S&W .45 Colt platform. It is not as sturdy as the Ruger but John Linebaugh has pressure tested some of these loads and his recommendations for the S&W are probably the best, most authoritative information to be had.

Keep in mind, that the S&W, while not as sturdy as the Ruger can handle a reasonable amount of loads that will do all you need (even tho', a Smith shouldn't be asked to do what a Ruger will do). The new Rugers (new Vaquero, is NOT in the same class as the original Vaquero, Bisley Vaquero, or Ruger Blackhawk) when it comes to handling heavy loads. They are much smaller guns with smaller diameter cylinders and much lighter and smaller frames. Where they shine is Cowboy Action shooting and should not be asked to do much more than SAAMI suggests for the .45 Colt.

Keep in mind that the original Black Powder .45 Colt was designed for the U.S. Army and their demands were that it had to shoot through a horse at 100 yards (and THAT was with black powder)! That's not exactly minor power...

Dale53

 

[andyo5]

Ron H, The 250g Ranier plated is basically a lead flat point bullet with a copper flashing. Ranier recommends that you use lead data to load it. The main benefit of the copper is that the bullets do not lead the barrel. You do get some copper residue, but it is easy to remove. I also notice that these bullets really ding the steel gong at my range...more so than plain lead bullets. My Rugers like this bullet, and my S&W probably will also.
I'd also like to load the Hornaday 250g XTP for a carry load. My powder choicces are Unique, Blue Dot, and 2400. Alliant recommends a maximum of 7.8g of Unique or 15g of 2400.

I guess what I am really asking is this: should I make a point of staying within published SAAMI maximums with this gun, or can I fudge a little? SAAMI maximums are derived with the Colt SAA in mind, not Rugers (or S&Ws).

 

[High Desert Hunter]

I use HS6 in my 25-13, I cast a 284gr SWC using the RCBS 270-SAA mould. I use this combo due in large part to a phone conversation I had with Mr. Linebaugh, and it works well. Before talking to him, I figgered the gun would at least handle the same pressures as the 45 ACP version, and that works out to over 19K PSI.

Dave

 

[VAdoublegunner]

You can "fudge" a little up to 45ACP +P pressure levels of 23K psi if you need it. The gun can handle that fine. You just need to be aware of how to craft 45 Colt handloads that operate within that range.

I like the RCBS45-270SAA in mine too. They weigh in at 282gr and when propelled by 20.0gr 4227 or 18.5gr of 2400 will handle just about any outdoors task reasonable for a handgun! HS6 is also a very good powder; I think Brian Pearce favors that one. Velocity is around 950fps. The same charges can be used with the lighter 250gr plated bullet, which should be handloaded as if it is a lead bullet.

 

[High Desert Hunter]

Those are some good loads! Mr. Linebaugh keeps his loads to 25K, and his writings on the S&W Model 25 are what convinced me to stick with my favorite, the 45 Colt. That 270-SAA bullet is the best bullet I have ever cast, or shot, it is unbelievable how well it has worked in every 45 Colt I have ever shot, and it hammers game pretty hard as well.

Dave

 

[andyo5]

Gentlemen, It seems there is a preference for hard cast bullets for this application, as opposed to jacketed. I assume this is for the higher possible velocity. True?

 

[Ron H.]

Originally posted by andyo5:
Gentlemen, It seems there is a preference for hard cast bullets for this application, as opposed to jacketed. I assume this is for the higher possible velocity. True?

Sir, for me, it's mainly a matter of cost and availability. High velocity is neither important nor even desireable for shooting paper targets, which is the vast majority of my pistol shooting.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Since a Mountain Gun was meant to carry in the woods to primarily protect against animals, Hard Cast bullets do that very well. They are inexpensive and will penetrate deeply when hitting almost anything you will come up against while hiking. They will also do damage to 2 legged critters too especially when using a SWC bullet. The sharp shoulder will cut into what it hits very well.

 

[Dale53]

I reload for all of my handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

My handguns include .32, .38/.357,.44/,44 Magnum, and 454 Casull. Cast lead bullets will do all I need (from target loads to full charge hunting loads) for any purpose that I use my handguns for. I have a number of deer with my handguns and can ask for nothing better.

I cast my own bullets, but if I didn't, I would still use cast bullets. I shoot a lot and cast bullets, in effect, show little wear on my handguns. A 1911 .45 ACP will wear a good barrel out with jacketed bullets in 5000 rounds. Using full load cast bullets, I have put 100,000 rounds through ONE custom .45 ACP (1911 platform) and it still shoots match grade groups.

Add all of that to the fact that I actually enjoy casting bullets and reloading and it is a "win-win" situation for me.

Dale53

 

[andyo5]

I used to use alot of cast bullets but lately have been avoiding them due to the issue of lead contamination. It gets onto your hands and I think some of it vaporizes as you shoot so that you may end up breathing some in. Does anyone think this is an issue, or not? Maybe this is why the bad guys in the old west wore a bandanna over their face (just kidding).

 

[Calaveras Slim]

I kinda like 7.4gr of W231 behind a 250gr RNFP or 7.1 behind a 260gr SWC for my 625-6 in 45lc.

 

[David LaPell]

For my 25-13 Mountain Gun I use 8.5 grains of Unique and a 250 cast round nose bullet, my velocities average around 950-965 fps.

 

[High Desert Hunter]

I cast and load lead bullets, my lead levels have never been above normal. I use lead because it is affordable, and I like being even more involved in the making of my cartridges.

Dave

 

[Dale53]

andy05;
"Lead dangers" have been greatly exaggerated by the EPA. Can lead be dangerous? Yes, if you EAT it! I observe care when using lead. I don't smoke, but if I did, I wouldn't while casting bullets. I don't eat when casting bullets and I am scrupulous in cleaning my hands after casting before doing ANYTHING in the house. That said, I have no problems with lead because I don't ingest it. I use good ventilation and mostly a good helping of common sense (something our various government agencies seem to be in extreme short supply).

Short take - lead does not represent a problem IF you take care.

Dale53

 

[Calaveras Slim]

Originally posted by High Desert Hunter:
I cast and load lead bullets, my lead levels have never been above normal. I use lead because it is affordable, and I like being even more involved in the making of my cartridges.

Dave

+1 with dave. I enjoy casting also

 

[Paul5388]

As Dale said, the lead dangers are grossly exaggerated by most people.

Lead is basically inert, that is evident by its use in potable water systems from the times of the Romans until very recently. The main source for toxic lead is from lead oxide, used to be a common ingredient in paint primers, i.e. red lead and etc.

There is lead in some cartridge primers in the form of lead styphnate (C6H3N3O8(s) + PbO(s) => PbC6H2N3O8(s)) and probably should be avoided, by using lead free primers, in confined areas, like indoor shooting ranges.