"Lock" question

[gt4point6]

Help me understand. I have a 686-4 without the lock and I have seen the pics of guns with the "lock" built in.

Why do so many want to remove it? Can't you simply leave it ulocked and not have to deal with it? KISS method.
Just curious...

I've searched and the threads are long and get off topic very rapidly with no answer to this question.

I may be in the market for a new gun next year and would like to understand what this "lock" is all about.

Thanks in advance.

 

[murphydog]

Hi, and welcome (senior chief?) There have been reports, documented by others on the site, of the lock engaging during firing and preventing subsequent rounds to be fired. My recollection is that it tends to happen more in lighter guns with heavy recoil (e.g., titanium or scandium frame .357s). I have personally not seen it occur, but others on the Forum have and I'm sure will chime in.

The other generic objections to the lock are that it was put on during a period when the factory was more or less alone in trying to placate a prior anti-gun Presidential administration, and also that it is an unnecessary complication on a gun like a DAO revolver.

 

[Bob R]

Senior, you just opened a big ole can of worms.

The best thing to do is to try the search, and then wade through those threads.

Bottom line, it is ugly, it is not necessary, it is a sign of a gun company cow-towing to the .gov and then forcing their decision on the buying public, it defaces the frame (it is ugly), it can't be trusted not to lock the gun up at the most inopportune time.

You will find some who don't care that it is there, others that will never purchase a gun with it, and then those that buy it and remove it.

It's just gonna get ugly from here.

BTW, welcome to the board.

bob

 

[perpster]

Why do so many want to remove it? Can't you simply leave it ulocked and not have to deal with it? KISS method.

The KISS method would have been to leave it off in the first place. Messing with a tried and true design by introducing an unnecessary mechanical device is not KISS. JMHO, and welcome to the Forum.

 

[bassoneer]

I just took two of them off and plugged the holes. My plan right now is to never buy another S&W revolver with the lock. If I get a good deal on guns similar to those I have, I would probably buy them and sell these (after re-installing the lock, of course). Like others have said, it is unnecessary and fundamentally wrong. The more I got familiar with the insides of the gun (while I was removing the lock) the more I realized how crazy it was to put it there in the first place. B

 

[bassoneer]

Keep in mind, it is not a safety device for carrying the gun. It is a locking mechanism for storage to keep young hands from hurting themselves. While that is a critical thing to do (I have three sons) the correct method is to keep the guns completely out of their hands. I wouldn't want my kids playing with the gun with the internal lock set anyway...if it can fail when I'm trying to shoot, it could probably fail when I wanted it to stay locked too. I lock mine up in a safe when I'm not carrying them. B

 

[The Rabbi]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of one spontaneously locking.
fwiw, I just picked up a Model 60 Pro and shot numerous rounds of +P 38 and Silvertip .357mag and something amazing happened: the gun functioned flawlessly.

 

[qballwill]

I will just never uderstand why the old cable master lock wasnt good enough. It was Cheaper to produce, Smith didnt have to redesign anything and it was impossible to malfunction while shooting.

 

[Bob R]

I haven't seen any credible evidence of one spontaneously locking.

Try a search for Michael Bane and his experience with a gun locking up. There are stories out there of the lock inadvertently locking up the gun. Just wade through the threads here.

All it takes is a gun locking up one time, whether to you or not, and you will be less trustful of the whole line, IMO.

bob

 

[davel686]

I can provide a example of my own.
I bought a M 66-6 2-1/2" a little over a year ago and got it for a good price.
the gun was like new with only a few rounds shot through it by the original owner.
Mechanically it is a well built and sound gun but it did have one problem the first time I took it out to shoot it.
as I shot it and it got hot, the hammer started to catch and would not fall with the full power of the spring behind it.
a few more rounds it was FTF almost every other round, so I let it cool down and then fired a few more rounds and it worked fine, but you could feel something was wrong with it.
I brought it home and did a bit of computer searching and found all the treads on the lock.
so I took the cover plate off and removed the lug/flag plate and the puny little spring that makes it work.
I put it back together and have shot over 1500 rounds out of it since with out a problem, it is now my daily carry gun.
it is the only IL gun I own but if I were to buy another for carry use I would do the same thing.
if its a safe Queen target gun then I would leave it alone as long as the lock dosen't show any sign of binding up.

 

[The Rabbi]

Try a search for Michael Bane and his experience with a gun locking up. There are stories out there of the lock inadvertently locking up the gun. Just wade through the threads here.

All it takes is a gun locking up one time, whether to you or not, and you will be less trustful of the whole line, IMO.

bob

I saw his blog and asked my 'smith, who is an old S&W head about it. He indicated his BS meter was "pegged out" reading the account of that "failure".
We can start with anyone wanting to shoot a 255gr bullet at 1350fps in a 329PD isn't right.

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

I was cleaning the insides of a N frame a year back, the darn lock just fell apart in my hands under the tooth brush. Yea, I know just a fluke, the hammer holds it together....

Great fun the IL guns are!

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

I will just never uderstand why the old cable master lock wasnt good enough. It was Cheaper to produce, Smith didnt have to redesign anything and it was impossible to malfunction while shooting.

What about the pad lock behind the trigger or looped around the top strap.
The IL is a waste.

 

[colt44sp]

To me the lock is an ugly political mandate for sure. And why the pre-locks still bring more money, you still can't make a 'locked' into a 'pre-lock' no matter what you do to that hole. Removing it to make a more reliable trigger is great, but it does'nt make the gun anymore better value wise. I just hope people who sell or trade them in re-install the lock or supply it with the gun. This might sound ludicrous but some dealers won't take an altered firearm (liability or stand by it) in on trade. ie: Try and trade a car/truck in without the cat. converter, that's a $10,000 fine if they sell it w/o one. And I'm sure S&W would'nt warranty or work on the gun either. Until S&W can have the deal they made with the government to eliminate it, live with it, leave it alone, or hunt for the pre-lock. There out there and worth the extra doe.

And no, I'm not a lawyer, but I know a few who would back this up.

 

[USAF385]

I for one rather mine without locks.

For a target gun, I'd buy one with the lock if the price was right. Who knows if I'd keep the lock in or not.

For a carry... no way. Now, I have the 642 no lock which I love... my father has one with the lock which he carries. I removed the lock for him and he feels totally secure with it now.

 

[scooter123]

In the past year I've purchased a 4 inch 620 and a 6 1/2 inch 610. At no time have I had any issues with the lock so I haven't bothered to remove them. I am also not bothered by that small hole in the frame for the lock. Fact is that someone who didn't know what it was for would probably assume that it's a lubrication point.

However, I am a Mechanical Engineer and IMO from a design standpoint they have made the lock rotate in the WRONG direction. To lock the gun it rotates in the counterclockwise direction. So, in the event of rapid muzzle flip during recoil, the lock mechanism may possibly "stand in place" due to simple inertia. If my wrists could tolerate shooting a light weight such as the 442, I would remove the lock before firing just one round. What is sad is that if it had been designed to rotate in the opposite direction, the risk of self activation would be nearly zero.

BTW, both guns were also shipped with cable locks. That may be a legal requirement. However, if it's not, it doesn't indicate that S&W has much confidence in the internal lock or expects that their users will remove them.

As for me, I don't use the internal lock. If I am around children any gun that I am not carrying has a cable lock on it. While the internal lock is probably very effective, I prefer a big fat visual indicator that the gun is locked up and unuseable.

 

[jspick]

I bought my two sons, who worked for the Forest Service at the time for summer jobs, each a 4" 629. Bears, grizzly and blacks, wolves and mountain lions are the reason.

Both had the locks. The lock is not a saftey device. After inspection of how they worked I made up my own mind and took them out and made plugs for the holes.

We NEVER had a malfunction while testing the guns out with the locks in place. BUT I can see how they could be a problem. They aren't that well made. SO to keep my sons safe I took the locks out. We have had one encounter with a grizzly bear and one with a lion. The bear died and the lion backed down! NOTHING is worth taking a chance on with your life.

I have a 617 with the lock. It still has the lock and probally will because I shoot it for fun and do not depend on it for protection.

John

 

[johngalt]

I got in the revolver game late, my first revolver was a Ruger GP100 in 2005, then a 686-6 in 2006, a 642-2 in 2007, and a 625-8 in 2008. All my S&Ws have the internal lock, but they haven't caused me any trouble. I would prefer to have no lock, but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over it.

I haven't found much of any used S&Ws at reasonable prices, and I don't want to buy one used and end up with a lemon, so I've been buying new.

I also prefer my 1911s without firing pin safeties, so far I only have 1 (Kimber) with it.

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

It don't matter what model revolver you have, from a model 60 to 500 the locks parts are the same.

 

[NVBob]

I am trying my darndest to induce a lock failure on one of my four newer Smiths. Can't even get it to happen on my 360 PD with 357 mags.
After several thousand rounds through my revolvers, and no lock failures, I think I am not going to waste any brain energy worrying about this.