Looking for a 1911 9 mm that’s easy on brass

[cds43016]

This may not be directly a reloading question but the recommendation I’m requesting is driven by the ability to easily reload.

When I shot bullseye, I had two accurized 1911s. They were both 45 ACP and tack drivers. 45 ACP is an easy round to reload accurately and both guns used the same load. Most members of the club I belonged to also used the same load. This kept reloading and supplies inventory simple and allowed for large bulk purchases.

I no longer shoot bullseye and have sold off my bullseye guns. I now shoot just for fun with 9 mm, 357 Mag and 22 LR. I don’t want to add any other calibers to this list and want to simplify again my reloading and supplies as much as possible. I’m down to one powder (W231) and one size primers. I’ve also standardized my brass (Federal for 9mm and Starline for 357 Mag). After I use up my current stock, I will be standardized for bullets by caliber as well.

I reload for my 686 SSR and my three 9 mm guns, a Smith & Wesson 986, a Sig Sauer P210 and a Walther PPQ Q5. To keep things simple, I shoot the same basic reload in all three guns. The only difference is .358 bullets for the 986 and .356 for the others in the same weight. I will standardize on .358 in the future when my .356 bullets are used up. The Walther and Sig Sauer shoot the .358 bullets just fine. All are very easy on the brass and accurate even with the shared reload.

I miss the 1911 and would like another in 9 mm. My stepson has an RIA 1911 in 9 mm. It’s hard on brass. I understand this may be true for many 9mm 1911s. I can’t resize it down enough to fit a Wilson or a Shockbottle 9mm case gauge. This is not an issue with my other 9 mm guns. If it fits the gauge it works in all my guns. Other than that, the RIA shoots great. But it treats brass like a Glock. The chamber is not fully supported which damages the brass and makes reloading a challenge especially when reloading for multiple guns.

This won’t work for me and I would like a 1911 that I can add to my 9 mm stable that treats the brass with respect so I can share reloads between all my 9 mm guns. I’m too old for added complexity.

I only know that Les Baer lists a supported chamber for their 9 mm 1911s. Are there any others? I’m looking for a 5-inch 1911 with fully adjustable sights and supported chamber that doesn’t destroy the brass.

As always, Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[.38SuperMan]

My Springfield RO stainless 5” with adjustable sights has a ramped / fully supported chamber and is very easy on brass. The sights are a copy of Bomar sights and the trigger is about as good as I’ve seen straight out of the box. My only complaint and I was aware of this going into it is it lack checkering on the front strap. I’m extremely pleased with this pistol

I have several Kimbers but no fulls size 9’s. Ive not looked to see if they offer the Eclipse in 9mm but suspect they do. I have an Eclipse Target in 38 super and really love it. It too has a fully supported chamber and is not only a beautiful pistol, it’s tough as a tank.

I used to shoot IPSC with a custom 38 super and wound up with nearly a thousand rounds of major loaded ammo not suitable to safely shoot in an unsupported chamber. I looked around, called Kimber and they assured me the Eclipse would safely handle the high pressures. I purchased one and changed the recoil spring to a 20# and put a shock buffer in and shot my remaining stash of super with no issues. I’m back using the stock setup and downloading super to a pleasurable load.

With the major loads it really tossed the brass but didn’t damage it. With standard pressure loads it makes a nice pile not far from where I stand.

I highly recommend looking at Springfield and Kimber. Both are very well made and have outstanding triggers out of the box. The Kimbers are the nicest finished mass produced pistol I’ve seen. It’s approaching my custom built 45. My least we’ll finished pistol is my Colt LW Commander in 38 super but it’s an excellent shooter.

 

[Forrest r]

Another vote for the springfield ro. Mine gets a steady diet of home cast .358" pc'd bullets.

The 9mm ro's have a fully supported ramped bbl that's supposed to be of NM quality. Don't know about all that but my box stock 9mm ro will do 10-shot groups @ 50ft like these with my home cast/coated bullets.

 

[phonejack]

I have a Kimber Gold Match and 4 glocks. I resize the cases and adjust the bullet seating depth where they run fine in all 5 pistols. I have no idea how many times I have reloaded the same cases. One thing I don't do is reload to +P velocities.

 

[mikld]

I can’t resize it down enough to fit a Wilson or a Shockbottle 9mm case gauge.

Normally I would question this statement, but no need, the OP is an experienced reloader and doesn't need any help from me. But this is one of the reasons why my case gauges live in a drawer somewhere in my shop. I only have 4, 45 ACP guns and 3, 9mms and the plunk test works quite well for all my guns...

 

[4barrel]

I see 500-1000 9mm cases on the ground every week and none are beat up unless stepped on and they are shot from different pistols. I would try a different extractor and then a different spring. I have a 9mm Citadel 1911 I traded for to sell. I fitted a NM bushing and touched up the hammer and it shoots point of aim so good I am keeping it. The cases looked good before I messed with it.

 

[Abflyboy]

My Springfield RO is super easy on brass as others have mentioned. My only 3 gripes with the gun are: 1) no front strap checkering, 2) no front cocking serrations, and 3) the MIM ignition parts are going to go away if you shoot it a lot.

I bought a Dan Wesson PM9 and put a EGW ignition kit in the Springfield for my son to shoot.

I would very highly recommend the PM9 as I have over 10k rounds through mine with zero malfunctions and it's still tight like it was when new.

 

[BB57]

I carry a 3" Citadel 1911 and I have Ruger LW Commander in 9mm.

I have not had any issues with reloading the brass from either of them.

I have however had issues with case gauges in a couple calibers that are on the small side and will reject ammo that feeds just fine in any of the several 9mm Luger pistols and carbines I own:

DWM P-08 Luger
Spreewerk P-38
Citadel compact 1911
Ruger LW Commander 1911
Browning SFS Hi Power
FN HP-DA
Browning BDA
(3) FEG P9 and 1st Gen P9M Hi Powers
CZ 75 Compact
CZ 2075 RAMI
S&W 6906
Rockriver 10.5" LAR-9
AR-15 9mm 16" carbine
Type B Uzi carbine

I'm thinking the problem is the gauge.

 

[cds43016]

Unless I go all out and get a Les Baer, the more realistic options with a fully supported chamber are a Dan Wesson PM9 or a Springfield Range Officer Elite Target.

My stepson’s RIA has a ramped barrel but when plunking a round you can see that the case is not fully supported. The resultant case bulge is enough not only to cause a reload dummy round to fail in both the Wilson and Shockbottle case gauges, but to also jam in at least my Walther. The tested rounds in the RIA started as Federal Factory Rounds. Federal Factory Rounds is where I got my 9 mm brass collection. If you want new 9 mm brass, it’s just about as cheap to buy factory rounds, shoot them and collect the brass, rather than just buying new brass and reloading.

I only reload brass fired in my guns. I tried range brass but had too many jams and there is too much junk brass lying around. At the range I shoot, many shooters buy the cheapest ammo they can. It's not worth the trouble. Since I’ve been using quality brass just fired in my guns and gauging them, I’ve had no jams. For me it’s just simpler and you know the history of the brass. I also know that any round fired in one gun will fire reloaded in any other.

Plunking is the right thing to do. It’s good basic reloading practice. But for me it’s slow. It almost seems that by the time I take the gun apart, I can with the Shockbottle have 100 rounds checked and boxed and I know they will work in any of my guns. My rejection rate is small. Whether you plunk using a gun barrel or a case gauge, it’s just personal preference. I admit for a given gun the rejection rate may be higher with a gauge. Also, my strategy of one load for all guns, only works if all your guns chambers are within a given spec and the chambers are supported. I never gave this a thought loading 45 ACP. That’s why I asked for your 1911 recommendations.

I do like to hear other opinions. You’re never too old to learn. I recently started lubing my cases even with carbide dies. I thought for years that this is just a wasted step. Well, I was wrong. Sizing is so much easier.

Thank you again for your recommendations.

 

[scotthickoryky]

Another vote for the springfield ro. Mine gets a steady diet of home cast .358" pc'd bullets.

The 9mm ro's have a fully supported ramped bbl that's supposed to be of NM quality. Don't know about all that but my box stock 9mm ro will do 10-shot groups @ 50ft like these with my home cast/coated bullets.

looks exactly like mine,, its 1 of many safe queens that i have,,, its never been shot,,,, i also have the big brother in 45acp identical to it,,, its a safe queen too,,, they are sweet looking

 

[mosquito]

I have .9mm 1911’s from Nighthawk, Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, STI and others.......never had a problem reloading for them. I have hundreds of handguns and I also standardize my loads to shoot in any gun I grab from the safe. I also use shockbottle gauges........Never an issue.

 

[cgbach]

I guess I am the outlier here. For the last couple of years I have been shooting a Ruger SR1911 Target 9mm and love it. Totally reliable, adjustable sights, ramped bbl., ambi-safety and adj. trigger. Out of the box it had about the best 1911 trigger I have seen on a factory pistol. I use it for steel challenge matches. I think I paid about 750$ for it new, a real bargain. Brass crunching is not a problem.
C.G.B.

 

[Johnnu2]

1911 in 9mm

I only have one 9mm and it's a SS Springfield Armory Range Officer. Just an FYI, I purchased a Sig bbl in .38 Super and can now switch back and forth between 9mm and .38 Super.... Why? Have no idea other than it seems neat to me...! No problems with the SA Range Officer or reloading either caliber for it... It digests everything I feed it.
John

 

[.38SuperMan]

I only have one 9mm and it's a SS Springfield Armory Range Officer. Just an FYI, I purchased a Sig bbl in .38 Super and can now switch back and forth between 9mm and .38 Super.... Why? Have no idea other than it seems neat to me...! No problems with the SA Range Officer or reloading either caliber for it... It digests everything I feed it.
John

Did your Sig barrel require any fitting?

 

[WR Moore]

Given the comments above and my own experience with 1911s in 9 mm, with and without ramped barrels, I'd hazard a guess that the chamber in the RIA "has issues". An unsupported case in a ramped barrel is strange. Possibly an over enthusiastic feed ramp?

At any rate, the brass condition you describe isn't typical. Calling RIA about this would seem a prudent move, doesn't cost much, one would assume this would fall under warranty.

If all else fails, Brownells has ramped replacement barrels for 1911's by both Clark and Nowlin. But fitting is typically a pain. Nowlin does have a pre-fit barrel that should drop in or require only minimal fitting.

 

[Johnnu2]

response to 38SuperMan

Did your Sig barrel require any fitting?

.38SuperMan, my sig barrel (of course it's supported as is the SA 9mm bbl) did require a few things (note that I am NOT even close to a machinist of gunsmith) that a backyard mechanic with a few skills could perform. First it needed a link and a link pin. So rather than go thru hell with measurements and geometry, I ordered one from Springfield Armory for my Range Officer, and pressed-fit it in with a small C-clamp. Then I also ordered a new barrel bushing (forgot from where) that specified that it would need some interior fitting. I could have used the original bushing but I wanted to play with fit just to learn. I used a Duracel AA battery and some emory paper to slowly and carefully fit the new and the old barrel in. That was it. BTW, I got the .38Super bbl from CCDN (?) for $35 delivered (brand new still in the sealed Sig. packaging). That price is really what got me to take the plunge. p.s. I crudely tested both bushings on both barrels and convinced myself that the "fitted" bushing worked best.

 

[cds43016]

Given the comments above and my own experience with 1911s in 9 mm, with and without ramped barrels, I'd hazard a guess that the chamber in the RIA "has issues". An unsupported case in a ramped barrel is strange. Possibly an over enthusiastic feed ramp?

At any rate, the brass condition you describe isn't typical. Calling RIA about this would seem a prudent move, doesn't cost much, one would assume this would fall under warranty.

If all else fails, Brownells has ramped replacement barrels for 1911's by both Clark and Nowlin. But fitting is typically a pain. Nowlin does have a pre-fit barrel that should drop in or require only minimal fitting.

The feed ramp on the RIA goes much further into the chamber than my other guns leaving part of the case unsupported. It looks just like a Glock Barrel which also has a feed ramp. I don’t think ramped barrel necessarily means fully supported chamber. And just like a Glock, the chamber is also most likely generously sized for reliability. I’ll check it next time I see his gun.

It’s good to know that there are other replacement barrels that are supported if he decides to go that way. Right now, he doesn’t reload and shoots factory ammunition. Calling RIA is certainly an option but I’m not optimistic since the RIA shoots factory rounds just fine. I'll talk it over with him. There is nothing to lose.

I’m reluctant to reload brass that has been fired in a gun that has an unsupported chamber. The brass must be compromised at the unsupported part with a high-pressure round like 9 mm. 9 mm brass certainly also spans the spectrum of quality which can compound the problem.

Many years ago, I just loaded for rifle. One of the first things I was taught was to look for Incipient Case-Head Separation before reloading a round. Firing a high-pressure pistol round in an unsupported chamber seems to basically be a similar thing – a weakness of the brass just above the case head.

Weakened brass fired in a generous and unsupported barrel seems like a problem just waiting to happen. I’m sure this is one of the reasons Glock frowns on reloads.

 

[fredj338]

I have a Springfield loaded, match grade bbl, my old set of RCBS dies works fine. Caveat, I sort my brass & avoid foreign headstamps. They tend to be thicker & that can cause chambering issues with larger dia lead or coated lead bullets. With std pressure loads, I cant imagine any chamber not having enough support.

 

[fredj338]

Springfield Range Officer. Everything you could want.

Klyde

Curious, do you run 10rd mags & whos? My loaded only really likes the Tripp 10rd mags. Other brands caused miss-feeds.

 

[fredj338]

Another vote for the springfield ro. Mine gets a steady diet of home cast .358" pc'd bullets.

The 9mm ro's have a fully supported ramped bbl that's supposed to be of NM quality. Don't know about all that but my box stock 9mm ro will do 10-shot groups @ 50ft like these with my home cast/coated bullets.

Agree, my loaded will shoot sub 2" groups offhand @ 25y with my cast loads. Though going larger than 0.357" causes issues with mixed brass. So I have to sort & choose wisely. I started shooting 0.356 cast lately & accuracy is just as good, more reliable functioning too.