Looking to identify model and caliber
- Thread starter Justandy101
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Welcome to the forums from the cotton and peanut covered plains of the Wiregrass! Yes, a Model 1899. It is likely chambered for .38 Long Colt which was the military cartridge at the time.
You can probably also chamber and fire the very similar 38S&W and or the British 38-200. All of them preceded the longer and slightly skinnier and more powerful, modern 38 special
You can find 38S&W for sale, online
You can find 38S&W for sale, online
No. .38 S&W is larger diameter than .38 Long Colt. Just like .38 S&W won't insert into a revolver chambered for .38 Special, it won't into the M1899. .38 Special is just a stretched .38 LC case to allow more black powder to be loaded.
None of the 1899 were 38 S&W? Also I have read that the current 38 S&W rounds have a smaller OD. I have some around here somewhere, I should check, I got them for a top break.
No. They were primarily .38 S&W Special. Some guns made for the Army, Navy and Cutter Service were chambered for .38 Long Colt. No hand ejector was chambered for .38 S&W until the Regulation Police I frame was introduced in 1917.
It is not a military gun with serial number either 6647 or 8847?? Looks like a 5" barrel and if so it is uncommon to find. It should have the caliber stamped on the left side of the barrel, but the metal is so beat up, I cannot make anything out. Only other caliber available was 32 Winchester, but the serial number is too high. Has to be a 38 Special barrel. Do you have commercial 38 Special ammo? Check the headstamp. If so, is the chamber rusty?
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OP
Justandy101
Member
Serial number is 6647. No sign of any other markings in the barrel regarding chambering. Chambers are in good condition. It must be a 38 caliber(32 is clearly to small when tried). Barrel is 5 inches
OP
Justandy101
Member
I have seen a few .38 special cylinders that would accept .38 S&W cartridges. A case of excess tolerances on the cylinder and possibly minimum tolerances on the sizing of the factory cartridges.
Wile I learned something new.
Can you check the serial number on the rear of the cylinder to make sure it matches the butt-frame? I have a US Army Model 1899 with an unaltered cylinder and it will not fit a 38 Special round. Image below shows the result of trying to do so.
DWalt
Member
Some .38 Special cylinders will accept some .38 S&W cartridges. But that is unintentional, as the result of tolerance extremes. Minimum spec cartridge diameter and maximum spec chamber diameter. I understand .38 Long Colt ammo is available from some sources. Likewise, the .38 Short Colt cartridge is also available and will work fine in a .38 Long Colt (or .38 Special) chamber. But neither .38 LC nor .38 SC ammunition will be cheap or readily available. Personally, I am a big fan of using the .38 SC cartridge in .38 Special revolvers for several reasons. It deserves to be more popular.
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There were two military contracts in the model of 1899 revolvers. The Navy contract serial numbers are 5001 - 6000, and the Army contract serial numbers are 13001 - 14000. Furthermore, 38 caliber 1899's were first caliber roll-marked at about serial number 7400 or so; your gun is too early to be caliber roll-marked.
Both of these military contracts were chambered for 38 long Colt, which does not fully seat a 38 special. If, by chance, the serial number on the back of the cylinder is within one of the two ranges mentioned above, then that might explain why it does not seat a 38 special cartridge. It's remotely possible that the cylinder on your gun is an over-run from one of the two military contracts, and again would not seat a 38 special cartridge.
If, for some reason, the cylinder on your gun has been replaced, (even if the serial number on the cylinder does match the butt number) it may be chambered for 38 long Colt, and not 38 Special.
Mike Priwer
Both of these military contracts were chambered for 38 long Colt, which does not fully seat a 38 special. If, by chance, the serial number on the back of the cylinder is within one of the two ranges mentioned above, then that might explain why it does not seat a 38 special cartridge. It's remotely possible that the cylinder on your gun is an over-run from one of the two military contracts, and again would not seat a 38 special cartridge.
If, for some reason, the cylinder on your gun has been replaced, (even if the serial number on the cylinder does match the butt number) it may be chambered for 38 long Colt, and not 38 Special.
Mike Priwer
OP
Justandy101
Member
Serial number on the cylinder matches butt and barrel
The next step is to get a 38 long Colt shell or cartridge, and see if the gun will chamber it properly. I would also examine each chamber, to see if there is any obstruction in it.
There are a couple possibilities here. One is that the gun was special-ordered as a 38 Long Colt. It might be hard to establish this, because the documentation may not be available. Another is that the cylinder was replaced with a 38 long Colt cylinder, perhaps by the factory, and was serial-numbered to the gun. Such a cylinder would have been available, because of the two Military contracts.
The most important thing is to determine what it will properly chamber, and less important is how it got that way.
Regards, Mike Priwer
There are a couple possibilities here. One is that the gun was special-ordered as a 38 Long Colt. It might be hard to establish this, because the documentation may not be available. Another is that the cylinder was replaced with a 38 long Colt cylinder, perhaps by the factory, and was serial-numbered to the gun. Such a cylinder would have been available, because of the two Military contracts.
The most important thing is to determine what it will properly chamber, and less important is how it got that way.
Regards, Mike Priwer
One further thought is the ammo you are trying to chamber. Does it say 38 spl or 38 special? I want to be sure it is not 357, for example.
Regards, Mike Priwer
Regards, Mike Priwer
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Justandy101
Member
I was excited by the idea of having a 38 long colt.. dreams crushed haha I did in fact test it with 357. 38 spl seats perfect. Thank you for the help.
One more question. Any idea when I’d be able to get a trigger for it?
Attachments
The two worst problems one can have with a Model of 1899 is a broken trigger return spring, and a broken or cracked finger on the front of the trigger. Your problem is the second of these two conditions!
Do you have any idea how the trigger came to be damaged? Is the cylinder stop (the curved piece that pops up through the floor of the cylinder window in the frame) jammed, or stuck in place? With the cylinder open completely. can you push the cylinder stop up and down freely with your finger? With that fracture in the trigger finger, I suspect that the cylinder will not rotate when the trigger is pulled. Does the cylinder rotate when drawing the hammer back in single action?
Do you know anything the ownership history of the gun? Is their anything important to you, about the gun? My belief is that the trigger needs to be replaced, and that is not going to happen for free. I'm trying to get a sense of how much money would one want to spend, in getting the gun in functioning order. Whatever you can tell me will help in thinking about this. Ultimately we need to get a handle on what else might be wrong with the gun?
Regards, Mike
Do you have any idea how the trigger came to be damaged? Is the cylinder stop (the curved piece that pops up through the floor of the cylinder window in the frame) jammed, or stuck in place? With the cylinder open completely. can you push the cylinder stop up and down freely with your finger? With that fracture in the trigger finger, I suspect that the cylinder will not rotate when the trigger is pulled. Does the cylinder rotate when drawing the hammer back in single action?
Do you know anything the ownership history of the gun? Is their anything important to you, about the gun? My belief is that the trigger needs to be replaced, and that is not going to happen for free. I'm trying to get a sense of how much money would one want to spend, in getting the gun in functioning order. Whatever you can tell me will help in thinking about this. Ultimately we need to get a handle on what else might be wrong with the gun?
Regards, Mike
