Lyman 2400 data for 38 Special

[Nevada Ed]

Don't go too light with 2400 because there will be so much powder left un-burned it will foul up your extractor. (don't as how I know)

Same goes for IMR 4227 if you ever try it in a 38 special case.

There will be un-burned powder with a Compressed load !!

 

[Paul in Nevada]

I read this entire thread and I'm still trying to figure out why 2400 would be used in a 38 spl. case.

Normally I would agree but in these times we might have to use what we have or what we can find vs what we prefer.

...My primary use is 30 Carbine which I find is a very good powder for a cartridge with a chamber pressure 35-40K. 17K, not so much.

I found a bunch of Lil'Gun recently so I am going to try that in 30 Carbine and save the 2400 (which I can't find any more) for 357.

 

[AJ]

I read this entire thread and I'm still trying to figure out why 2400 would be used in a 38 spl. case. The cartridge case was never designed for the pressure of a magnum powder. Of course there is the plus P case but why bother. 357 cases are already high pressure. It is much easier to download a 357 than to hotrod a 38 spl. Unless of course you just like to shoot your K frames lose. In that case l understand.

Hotrodding the .38 Special is just how the .357 Magnum was developed. Meant for N Frame revolvers. The History of the .357 Magnum | An Official Journal Of The NRA

 

[AJ]

A friend just sent me this article : American Handgunner A Special That Is Special - American Handgunner Thought some folks would enjoy it.

 

[38SPL HV]

I read this entire thread and I'm still trying to figure out why 2400 would be used in a 38 spl. case. The cartridge case was never designed for the pressure of a magnum powder. Of course there is the plus P case but why bother. 357 cases are already high pressure. It is much easier to download a 357 than to hotrod a 38 spl. Unless of course you just like to shoot your K frames lose. In that case l understand.

2400 is a very slow powder, doesn't burn 100% and doesn't perform as well as faster powders for velocities below 1000 fps.

The reason why 38 Specials got “hot roded” with 2400 was because the high cost of S&W 357 Magnum N frames back in the day (prior to the Model 28 and Ruger Blackhawk) made them inaccessible to most shooters. Most were able to afford S&W Heavy Duty N frame 38 Specials which were able to withstand higher pressure 38 Special 38-44s (approximately 1,050 fps from 5 inch revolvers). They duplicated these velocities with 2400 and 158 gr bullets…old Lyman 38 Special data included sections for these heavier 38 Special loads. Personally, I duplicate these loads with a cast 158 gr SWC over 11.0 grs 2400…they’re only shot in my 357 magnum Rugers and occasionally in my 1953 vintage 1953 S&W Heavy Duty 5 inch

 

[rwsmith]

Lyman 44th 1967...

150 gr. cast, 11.5 gr. 2400 for 1015 fps.

Lyman 48, 2002:

No data for 2400 powder

Modern Reloading, Richard Lee, 1996, reprinted 1997 and 2000

158 gr lead, 7.5 gr HERC 2400, 990 fps (1420 psi) I checked some other loads in Lee's book and they are VERY conservative. For example, he gives a max of 5.3 gr. of Unique for a 125 gr jacketed bullet. Most reloading manuals give a maximum of[r 6 grains for the same bullet. My Sierra manual [read HOT HUNTING LOADS] give 7.0 grain Unique max for a 125 gr. jacketed bullet)

 

[DWalt]

The standard duplication load for the .38-44 cartridge was always between 11 to 12 grains of 2400. I have fired thousands of such loads, but long ago. MV for 158 grain cast SWC bullets will be in the mid 1100s. Perfectly safe, but the recoil is a little stout. 2400 is also an excellent propellant for the .30 Carbine and cast bullets for light loads even in large rifle calibers. My favorite for cast bullet loads in .308 and .300 Savage, around 23 grains with 170 grain GC bullets. Produces MVs in the low 2000s. Have even used it in the .45-70.

I would not recommend 2400 for light .38 Special loads. Faster propellants are better. 2400 is in the same ballistic performance range as H110, AA9, and IMR 4227.

 

[mtgianni]

150 gr. cast, 11.5 gr. 2400 for 1015 fps.

Lyman 48, 2002:

No data for 2400 powder

Modern Reloading, Richard Lee, 1996, reprinted 1997 and 2000

158 gr lead, 7.5 gr HERC 2400, 990 fps (1420 psi) I checked some other loads in Lee's book and they are VERY conservative. For example, he gives a max of 5.3 gr. of Unique for a 125 gr jacketed bullet. Most reloading manuals give a maximum of[r 6 grains for the same bullet. My Sierra manual [read HOT HUNTING LOADS] give 7.0 grain Unique max for a 125 gr. jacketed bullet)

Lee did no load development but acknowledged they were copying other manufactures published data. Their advantage was an easy place to find it all.

 

[rockquarry]

Lee did no load development but acknowledged they were copying other manufactures published data. Their advantage was an easy place to find it all.

I haven't looked in the Lee book to verify but that 158 gr. 7.5 /2400 load at 990 fps looks very suspect even with a long barrel. Much too high a velocity, by a couple hundred fps and seriously underloaded for 2400 powder.

 

[50 target]

I have an Outdoorsman 38 spl and worked up loads with 2400, 158 gr swc plain base in .2 gr increments. Working with my chronograph I got close to 1100 fps and I was a long way from max in the manuals. I suggest starting with "start" lots and work up using a chronograph so you have an idea of the load is doing. I did not detect any pressure signs but my remaining loads will be fired in a N frame 357
Mag. Just sayin....Be safe

 

[Model19man]

My experience with the 38 Special - 2400 is a poor choice for most loads as there is too much unburned powder. W231 is a better powder for 38 Special. Very clean and not a whole lot of unburned powder. None in fact.

 

[Model19man]

A friend just sent me this article : American Handgunner A Special That Is Special - American Handgunner Thought some folks would enjoy it.

That was interesting thanks!

 

[gwpercle]

Speer Loading Manual #8 - 1970 - 158 LSWC / 2400 :
Starting load - 10grs. 2400 @ 1044 fps
Maximum Load - 11.0 grs. 2400 @ 1155 fps
both loads with magnum primers

Speer Reloading Manual #9 - 1974 - 158 gr. LSWC / 2400 :
Not Any Loads shown with 2400 and the 158 gr. LSWC !
In fact no loads are shown in 38 special for the jacketed 158 gr. HP ...
Seems like 1974 wasn't a good year for 2400 / 38 special at Speer Labs !

Gary

 

[glenwolde]

Here's a guy that pressure tested Skeeter's .357-in-a-.38 case load, but included in the data is some lighter loads with 2400, with pressure data, that you may find relevant:

Alliant 2400 in Winchester 38 SPL cases with the 358156 seated to the 2nd crimp groove [OAL; 1.517”] with CCI 500 primers.

11.0 gr 2400….1275 fps….23/72….24,900 psi….1,400/4,400

Skeeter’s 357 magnum load 358156 w/2400 in 38 SPL Cases

 

[Nevada Ed]

I know 2400 powder is used for high fps loads in 38 and 357 but;

if you have any discontinued SR4756 power on hand, in my 686 6" I got;

38 spl;
110gr jhp @ 1129fps
125gr jhp @ 1198
158 lead @ 1041

357 125gr @ 1669fps
as my high fps load data over my chrony.

 

[twodog max]

At the risk of beating a dead horse I want to add one more comment. I know back in the late 70's and early 80's I used 2400 in 38 Special cases using Skeeter's load info. I recall doing so but the exact charges have long since faded from recollection. I tried these because I was a Skeeter fan and if he said it was OK then as far as I was concerned it was.
Fast forward to today. After reading this thread for a while I decided to once again try 2400 in the 38 case with a NOE 155grain cast bullet. I used 11.0 grains of 2400. Shot them in a 686. Nothing blew up primers were rounded, they shot good and while recoil was noticeably snappier than run of the mill 38+P loads it was far less than 357 loads. I loaded 50 rounds to play with and will probably be the end of this adventure. I am guarding my supply of 2400 for more worthy applications.
That is my 2 cents worth.

 

[38SPL HV]

…I reserve 2400 for 357 Magnum loadings. No longer load up 38-44 anymore with 2400.

 

[AJ]

I use 2400 for .357 Magnum and .30 Carbine loadings.

 

[mtgianni]

Rereading Pet Loads by Ken Waters, he recommended 2400 as one of his loads on 38 +p loads. Data is out there but 2400 is better used on so many other loads.

 

[Narragansett]

One of my old manuals shows the lead 158 38 special load at 1156fps
with Alliant 2400 powder.

However, some state that back in those days the testers might have been rolling more than just loads, as they tested out the ammo, as they worked.

"Hay man, cool............ look at these numbers" !!

I have found several loads in different manuals....................
that I stay away from, due to they are hotter than what I use or
what I think is a misprint on the grs. stated in the material.

Note;
2400 powder is not at its best in a 38 case.
I save mine for the .357 Magnum with 140 gr or heavier bullets.
In my 2" J frame Unique or BDot will match 2400 for a +P loading with half the powder.

Back 30 years ago, when I was loading 25K/year of 12 ga trap loads. there were always new components hitting the market, especially wads.

I used to call down to Hercules in Delaware, and give them a hypothetical load and they would load it and test 10 rounds in their pressure gun and give me the data. I shot many loads that were not in anybody's reloading manual.

While I bet that the current companies still have the equipment, I wonder if they would still do this service.

I had a great handicap load with Green dot, Federal Gold Medal Hull, WW209 primer, and a Windjammer wad thanks to the Hercules guys