Lyman Boxes How Do You Tell How Old?

[Andylit]

Not sure if this is the right place for the question but...

I buy a bunch of older reloading equipment at auctions. I collect mostly items that are specifically related to firearms I have in the house. Example: I have several S&W break top revolvers. Which means I simply MUST have the period reloading tools to go with the gun. I typically am on the lookout for Ideal, Lyman, Winchester and Remington equipment from the beginning of the cartridge era up into the 1950's.

I end up buying lots that include items I don't intend to keep. By selling off the excess I can usually break even or so on the stuff I keep.

My question is about Lyman boxes. Is there a source with a timeline of when specific types of boxes were made? The black powder era is fairly well documented in the Rowe & Curtis volumes, but the post WWI period sort of fades out.

Sitting on my desk right now is a box with a later Lyman 310 tool. Orange with black and white lettering. No corner reinforcements. Next to it is a box with a #55 powder measure. Prominent Ideal name, less prominent Lyman and the box has metal corner reinforcements.

I've seen the metal corners on mold boxes as well. I've never been able to get a handle on what box designs were used during what periods.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[huthike]

I don’t know the answer for you but am interested in the question. Would Lyman catalogs and/or reloading manuals perhaps illustrate some of the boxes and help?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The orange boxes with the reinforced corners started in the early 30's and run until the late 40's or mid 50's when replaced with all grey and white striped boxes (at least on All American 7/8-14) On 310 sets, I have brown cardboard, hand addressed, and post marked from the early 50's (1952 sticks in my mind) That address in Columbus burned down in 1954, I hope loading wasn't blamed.

I can't tell the difference on the dies! But the 310 tongs Start with Ideal and are Blued or Nickeled, the go to blue Lyman, then painted Lyman (steel) then painted Lyman (aluminum alloy) I have a set of Ideal tongs that were in a Lyman box NIB from an old hardware in the 1980's!

There were 3 sizes of tongs; H (for Hornet) Small & Large. H stopped being marketed in the 50's and in the 80's there was no size indicated.

BTW there were Hornet and K Hornet dies, if numbers of used dies are an indicator K Hornet guns out numbered normal Hornet guns!

Ivan

 

[AJ]

Catalogs would probably be the best for trying to date items.

 

[2152hq]

My casting stuff and a lot of my orig reloading equip was Lyman. It was mostly bought in the early to late 60's.
I still have and use the empty boxes for misc 'stuff' from some of it.
They are orange boxes with the black metal reinforcement corners.
Bullet molds and handle boxes, a casting pot box, casting ladle box, Lyman powder measure (#55?) still have the measure too and use it, stuff like that.

I had a #450 Bullet Sizer & Lube that I bought new somewhere in there too. That could have been as late as '70.
I remember that came in a Gray box.
The earlier model lube/sizer it replaced in the Lyman line (can't recall the Model#) was in the Orange box packaging

 

[Green Frog]

Just as a general rule of thumb, if you want tools contemporary to break top S&Ws, no Lyman labeled tools or boxes fit. The old Kraft board boxes with yellow(?) labels will get you back there, but Ideal only.
Want a real challenge? Find a S&W reloading tool set! That will really set off your display, and they actually work. I’ll try and post pix later.
Froggie

PS Here’s a picture of a S&W set I put together several years ago… I don’t have the original box, but it made a nice compact way to reload in kitchen or camp.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Is that a 38 OR 32 S&W set?

Ivan

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

A couple winters ago, I loaded 100 38 Specials with a 310 tool. I could have done 300 on a single stage press in the same amount of time and 600 on the Dillon!

Ivan

 

[AJ]

I learned to reload on the Lyman 310 tool. .38 Special/.357 Mag, .44 ACO, and .44 Mag. I still have several 310 tools and a bunch of dies. I also have a Lyman Tru-Line Jr. press that uses 310 dies.

 

[Green Frog]

Is that a 38 OR 32 S&W set?

Ivan

It’s a 32 S&W (“short”) but they came in 32 S and L, a couple of varieties of 38s and even a couple of 44s. I wish mine were for 32 S&W Long, but after over 125 years plus, well, it is what it is!

Froggie

 

[Ruger 13]

I would go to the antique Handloading Tool Collectors Association and look up a guy named Pressman. He knows everything……..I’m not kidding!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

It’s a 32 S&W (“short”) but they came in 32 S and L, a couple of varieties of 38s and even a couple of 44s. I wish mine were for 32 S&W Long, but after over 125 years plus, well, it is what it is!

Froggie

I have a very old 310 die set the box says 44 S&W. It will do 44 Special, but I think it was intended for 44 Russan only. The box doesn't say Lyman anywhere, just Ideal.

Ivan

 

[Green Frog]

I have a very old 310 die set the box says 44 S&W. It will do 44 Special, but I think it was intended for 44 Russan only. The box doesn't say Lyman anywhere, just Ideal.

Ivan

We might be accused of some thread drift here, but when talking about 310 tools and their predecessors, if they have a screw in die, making them adjustable, it’s quite simple to adapt them to different length cartridges. I’ve got a nice nickel #3 ideal set (yellow label on box) that is stamped 32 S&W. I’ve loaded 32 H&R with it, and with a little fiddling could probably load 327 FM, not to mention 32 ACP at the opposite extreme of length. Those old time reloaders had to think outside the box!

Froggie

PS Plus 1 to comment about “pressman”. In fact, the whole ARTCA website and forum is a rich source of good info. I’m Green Frog there as well as here.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

We might be accused of some thread drift here, but when talking about 310 tools and their predecessors, if they have a screw in die, making them adjustable, it’s quite simple to adapt them to different length cartridges.

True on some sets, not true on others. My 44 S&W dies are so short, they can barely be screwed out from the tong, and the seating stem to make long enough 44 Specials. It may have to do with what other cartridges were available when the dies were made. A 38 Colt die set can do both Long & Short, and some can do 38 Special, some can't.

Where it gets really bizarre, is dealing with a cigar box of loose dies with no boxes! It gets hard telling the 7.7 Japanese from the 30-06! The 2" long rimmed cartridges really do look alike. 219 Wasp or Zipper from 30-30 is mostly trial and error, except there were some printed info sheets about seating plugs that help with diameters. Two of the hardest to tell apart are 303 British and 30-40 Gov't.

On the other hand, 30-30 and 303 Savage can be done with the same die set because they are all neck size only. I know you can do 30-06 with a 308-die set, don't know if you can get 30-06 short enough to do 308.

Ivan

 

[AJ]

My 310 Tools. In the middle is an Ideal tongs and the other two are Lyman. I have dies for .45 ACP, .38/.357, 30/06 and .44.

On a shelf is a TruLine Jr Press and eight boxes of dies. Will have to get a picture and inventory on those.

 

[AJ]

TruLine Jr. press

This is a TruLine Jr. Press. It uses 310 Tool dies also. In boxes pictured with it are dies for 250 Savage, 300 Savage, 222 Remington and .257 Roberts.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The dies for a 310 tool have a priming die. True sets made for the True-Line dies do not.

Ivan

 

[AJ]

The dies for a 310 tool have a priming die. True sets made for the True-Line dies do not.

Ivan

Ivan,

Never used a TruLine Jr. press. I learned to load on a 310 Tool setup. The Truline and the dies & other pieces were given to me. Someday I may learn how to use it.

AJ