M-52 Ammo

[cougar015]

While I reload ammo for several calibers I still have to set up for re-loading the .38 AMU. In the mean time, I bought some factory loads while they were on sale. Does anyone have any data or results in shooting this Ammo from Double Tap in a M52? Factory data is 148 Gr. Full wad cutter at 800 fps.

 

[Nevada Ed]

At 800fps, even if it is loaded with a HB bullet, it should be plenty safe.I hope that it feeds well and is accurate, for you.

Good shooting.

 

[AJ]

At 800fps, even if it is loaded with a HB bullet, it should be plenty safe.I hope that it feeds well and is accurate, for you.

Good shooting.

Concur with Nevada Ed. 800 FPS should be just fine. What powder are you using and the weight of the loading?

 

[505Gibbs]

Much, if not all, of the factory ammo run around 750fps IIRC.

 

[gmborkovic]

Mr. OP, re-loading for a 38AMU? Why? The biggest mistake S&W ever made. There only have tobe a hand full out there. Why bother.

 

[cougar015]

Mr. OP, re-loading for a 38AMU? Why? The biggest mistake S&W ever made. There only have tobe a hand full out there. Why bother.

I'm still wondering if it's the biggest mistake ever made or the greatest target round that was never fully embraced. ???

 

[gmborkovic]

OK, on second thought, you might be correct. But have to agree the 35 S&W auto. is in the lead.

 

[pasound]

Factory 148gr WC, DEWC or HBWC, has always been 750-800 fps. Never go with a load slower or faster, at least in the loading manual listings for a 52. Interestingly, the same rule holds for 148gr WC in revolvers. The sweet spot for target shooting.

I bought a case of Magtech 148gr WC last year, mostly to have more brass for WC-only loads. It shoots to the same POI as my handloads.

 

[colt_saa]

While I reload ammo for several calibers I still have to set up for re-loading the .38 AMU. In the mean time, I bought some factory loads while they were on sale.

Does anyone have any data or results in shooting this Ammo from Double Tap in a M52? Factory data is 148 Gr. Full wad cutter at 800 fps.

I have never fired the ammunition that you have purchased from Double tap.

Has your Model 52 been converted to fire 38 AMU?

From the angle that your image was captured at, that does not look like 38 AMU ammunition. It looks like 38 Special.

The head stamp on the casings appear to say 38 special as well. Though it is a little blurry when I magnify the image

Additionally that ammunition appears to be loaded with hard cast projectiles. Factory 38 special match ammunition is loaded with hollow base wadcutters that are soft swagged

 

[cougar015]

I have never fired the ammunition that you have purchased from Double tap.

Has your Model 52 been converted to fire 38 AMU?

From the angle that your image was captured at, that does not look like 38 AMU ammunition. It looks like 38 Special.

The head stamp on the casings appear to say 38 special as well. Though it is a little blurry when I magnify the image

Additionally that ammunition appears to be loaded with hard cast projectiles. Factory 38 special match ammunition is loaded with hollow base wadcutters that are soft swagged


Mark,
The doubletap ammo is 38 special for my Model 52 which is not converted to shoot 38 AMU. It is not match ammunition. Does have to be?

 

[colt_saa]

Mark,
The doubletap ammo is 38 special for my Model 52 which is not converted to shoot 38 AMU. It is not match ammunition. Does have to be?

No, of course it does not have to be

However the hollow base wadcutter match ammunition will typically be more accurate than a hard cast double end wadcutter in most firearms.

Now of course every firearm/ammunition combination is gonna be a little different. Even if the model of firearm and type of ammunition are identical from example to example. There will always be those few exceptions that do not follow the rule

So your next question is going to be how much more accurate?

And the truth is while it is more accurate, it is not by a lot. Probably less than 5% of the shooters in America are skilled enough to see the difference.

But if you are one of those top shooters and you happen to be shooting in a match then yes, it has to be the most accurate ammunition that you could possibly get for your firearm

 

[Chubbs103]

While I reload ammo for several calibers I still have to set up for re-loading the .38 AMU.

This statement has me a little confused when your questions are about a MAGTECH .38 SPL load.

For reference, MAGTECH lists velocity as 810fps (from a 4" barrel). That should be perfectly acceptable. Their cutaway photo online also shows a hollow base bullet.

 

[AJ]

This statement has me a little confused when your questions are about a MAGTECH .38 SPL load.

I am also confused. Just what are we looking at/talking about? .38 AMU or .38 Special? I am in the camp that a 148 grain HBWC with 2.8 grains of Bullseye for .38 Special in a S&W 52 or a target revolver is the answer............

 

[mm93]

I'm still wondering if it's the biggest mistake ever made or the greatest target round that was never fully embraced. ???

As part of our 2400 Bullseye Matches I shot my S&W Model 52 in the "any centerfire" segment for years, and always felt I had an edge over others who simply used their .45ACP in the ".45 segment" and the "any centerfire" segment.
Mine was flawless operating, and extremely accurate, plus less recoil also.

 

[cougar015]

As part of our 2400 Bullseye Matches I shot my S&W Model 52 in the "any centerfire" segment for years, and always felt I had an edge over others who simply used their .45ACP in the ".45 segment" and the "any centerfire" segment.
Mine was flawless operating, and extremely accurate, plus less recoil also.

I am also confused. Just what are we looking at/talking about? .38 AMU or .38 Special? I am in the camp that a 148 grain HBWC with 2.8 grains of Bullseye for .38 Special in a S&W 52 or a target revolver is the answer............

My apologies as my OP should have stated .38 special not 38AMU. I was looking at both my M52A and M52 at the time I posted and listed the wrong caliber. Thanks for all the replies and I now have some good data for when I do reload. Still looking for any info on the Doubletap ammo.

 

[Chubbs103]

Part of that is my fault. I hadn't had my coffee apparently. I looked right at your post I gave info for MAGTECH, not DoubleTap.

I see both a 140gr hardcast "Equalizer" at 825fps (4" barrel) and a 148gr full wadcutter at 800fps (4" barrel) listed on their website. The 148gr is listed as 21BHN. I did not see a hardness listed for the hardcast Equalizer.

Can you tell us which you have?

My initial thought is anything "hardcast" or anything over a BHN of about 12 is likely harder than you need for your M52.

Will they work? Sure
Are they ideal? Shoot 'em and find out.

Despite the DoubleTap website claiming they won't lead your barrel because they are 21BHN, they might cause leading because they are so hard. I have never run a full wadcutter with an alloy that hard. Only your barrel can tell you the answer though.

 

[cougar015]

I see both a 140gr hardcast "Equalizer" at 825fps (4" barrel) and a 148gr full wadcutter at 800fps (4" barrel) listed on their website. The 148gr is listed as 21BHN. I did not see a hardness listed for the hardcast Equalizer.

Can you tell us which you have?

My initial thought is anything "hardcast" or anything over a BHN of about 12 is likely harder than you need for your M52.

Despite the DoubleTap website claiming they won't lead your barrel because they are 21BHN, they might cause leading because they are so hard. I have never run a full wadcutter with an alloy that hard. Only your barrel can tell you the answer though.

Thanks for the education. Per the picture in my OP, I have the 148 gr FW at 800 fps. The box does not show That they are 21BHN and I didn't realize that there were differences in the hardness of the lead in the ammo. Great thing about this forum is the opportunity to learn something new. So the next question is, has anyone ever shot ammo with the 21BHN hardness? What is the opinion among shooters as to the best BHN hardness to use?

 

[Rick H.]

This bullet hardness subject is all over the spectrum when doing any amount of research. It would seem that Hornady's 148 grain W/C bullet is somewhere between 8 and 11 on the BH scale. This should be just fine for what is needed on a M52. A slew of "contributors" supposedly tested Hornady 148's and the lowest reading was an 8 on their hardness scales. The consensus on what I read from a half dozen sources was 12 is too hard for good accuracy out of a M52. I don't know as I don't cast my own bullets. I just use Hornady's 148's and leave it at that. I have played with DEWC's and plated bullets, but have never been really happy with them. Do they work in my M52's? Yes, but I don't think I get the same accuracy with them that I do with Hornady's. That's just my opinion and yours may vary.

I tend to keep my velocities around 750ish. Much faster and leading rears its ugly head and I am a fanatic about getting lead out of my M52. It only gets worse if you don't get the lead out of a barrel and M52 barrels don't grow on trees anymore. So for now I will stick with Hornady 148 W/C's until I see something better come along, but at $33.00 for a box of 50 Doubletaps I can handload a lot more rounds for the same price with arguably better results on paper using Hornady bullets.

Rick H.

 

[Sevens]

Half the genius in a hollow-base wadcutter bullet is that the base has an internal "dome" and the idea is that the bullet enters the barrel somewhat freely but the expanding gases help the bullet to obturate or "fill out" and expand, better fitting the barrel and capturing the gases that propel it out of the bore.

The idea of a 21 BHN hard cast bullet (with heavy emphasis on the "hard" part) is that you would be flinging a full-caliber meplat, typically at some kind of living creature target, which is obviously well outside the intended wheel house of a target Model 52.

There are some folks who absolutely swear on the old dirty black gooey Remington HBWC bullet and these bullets are available these days in 100-count bags from Black Hills. For my buck, I was fortunate to run in to a pretty large supply of old Star HBWC and that's my most used projectile in my 52's. I have also had success with the mica powdered Hornady HBWC and I have had some decent shooting with the Precision Delta HBWC too.

For an extremely short time I toyed with the idea of running a plated wadcutter made by Xtreme and the -ONLY- reason I had that idea at all was because of a local indoor range that would not allow lead bullet ammo, but I abandoned that idea very quickly and I have no plans to revisit it.

 

[cougar015]

Based on the replies received here, I'm leaning towards not shooting this ammo in my M52. One thing that is confusing to me is the mfrg states "This load uses a 21BHN hardness HARDCAST bullet so it will not lead up your bbl and will not deform on impact. Velocity 4" barrel 800 fps, MATCHGRADE."
The general consensus here is to use a bullet with a 12BHN or lower. At 800 fps this round was designed for punching paper and not people. Is the mfgr claim that it will not lead up the barrel deceiving?