M&P 15-22.. the 23rd shot...

[jasonmb]

A puff of smoke.. the extractor (extractor is on the bolt itself right?) is gone.. a spring rolls down the bench. A small blow out on the side of the cartridge.

So here I am, brand new rifle, bought new yesterday, broken

Will S&W want the entire rifle back for service? In everyones experience is this on my dime or theres?

Can i just buy a few parts and fix myself?

 

[browningautorifle]

You COULD fix it yourself but why did that happen in the first place? I've shot a lot of that patteren of rifle and never even heard of that sort of thing. I would think it prudent to send it to them. Most manufacturing groups honor their products.

 

[Brett248Vista]

Smith @ Wesson will send you a prepaid Fed Ex Call Tag. Take the rifle and clean it well and put it in the original box, take off all your extras (I even took my stock sights off). If you chose to include the magazine that's your call. I did not send mine back with a mag and I put a letter in the box to express my unhappiness and that I would appreciate a new pair of magazines.

When you get to the Fed Ex Hub ask them for a pair of express boxes (free) there is one particular size that will fit half way over the original Smith box, use a pair of these and peel/stick the boxes together at the center and put a little packing tape around them.

I sent mine in on Jan 30th and had it back Feb 9th. They replaced my trigger springs, recoil spring and adjusted or replaced my ejector and upgraded it to the latest version extractor.

 

[whoppo]

A puff of smoke.. the extractor (extractor is on the bolt itself right?) is gone.. a spring rolls down the bench. A small blow out on the side of the cartridge.

So here I am, brand new rifle, bought new yesterday, broken

Will S&W want the entire rifle back for service? In everyones experience is this on my dime or theres?

Can i just buy a few parts and fix myself?

You've experienced an OOB (Out Of Battery).. this happens when the round is not all the way into the chamber when it fires.

Call S&W, they will send you a pre-paid shipping label. You will want to ship the entire firearm to them along with any parts that have broken. You'll also want to tell them (and us) what type of ammunition you were using when the gun failed.

Some of the more recent repairs of the 15-22's have included replacing the hammer spring, the bolt spring and magazines.

Repairs have been taking 1-2 weeks and some folks have been getting a couple of extra magazines for their trouble.

 

[27 Beck]

A puff of smoke.. the extractor (extractor is on the bolt itself right?) is gone.. a spring rolls down the bench. A small blow out on the side of the cartridge.

So here I am, brand new rifle, bought new yesterday, broken

Will S&W want the entire rifle back for service? In everyones experience is this on my dime or theres?

Can i just buy a few parts and fix myself?

I have read of a poster getting the parts to do a DIY fix. But you are better off to send it back to S&W. They will pay for shipping both ways and do updates to bring it up to current specs.

You COULD fix it yourself but why did that happen in the first place? I've shot a lot of that patteren of rifle and never even heard of that sort of thing. I would think it prudent to send it to them. Most manufacturing groups honor their products.

It happened because of an OOB. (Out of battery). If you read thru these posts you will see it is a fairly common occurance. S&W will stand behind the rifle 100%.

 

[Brett248Vista]

Does anyone know "what" holds the extractor in place? If you look at the bolt it almost looks like a roll pin goes in from the underside. But someone here told me that it's not held in with a pin. So if that is the case, what exactly *is* securing the extractor (two parts) and the spring?

 

[browningautorifle]

27 Beck; I don't need to read through these posts to see anything. I've spent the last 20 years standing on military ranges and haven't seen anything of the sort. I've owned lots of patterns of rifles and carbines. Most of my friends own one or two also. It certainly isn't a common occurance unless you mean with the S&W product. This leads me to ask what you people are doing wrong to cause this.

 

[Brett248Vista]

browning,

I am glad to hear that you are a seasoned professional. You need to work on the way your posts come across on this forum. We have had some issues as of late with the way posts come across and we do not need to cause more grief for the moderation team.

The Out Of Battery discharge and loss of the extractor assembly seems to be a common occurrence on the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22. It does not appear to have anything to do with the operator doing anything "wrong". It appears there is a design flaw with this platform and we, the owners are tying to get to the bottom of what is causing the issue. Smith & Wesson has been accommodating as far as the warranty is concerned. But as owners we need as much detail as we can get, like what type of ammo was used. Smith has given us a list of their preferred ammunition to use and yet we've still seen issues using the ammo they recommend.

I do not feel this has anything to do with the operator, so saying "what are you people doing wrong" is pretty rude to those of us who own these firearms and are having issues.

 

[chuck s]

The M&P 15-22 extractor is quite unlike the M16 extractor and is held in only by the spring and lil' plunger. Push the plunger back and you can remove the extractor with your fingers.

A pinned extractor should have been part of this design. But it's the exact design as both of my Ruger semiautomatic .22LR pistols and they've never blown out an extractor.

-- Chuck

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I've spent the last 20 years standing on military ranges and haven't seen anything of the sort. I've owned lots of patterns of rifles and carbines. Most of my friends own one or two also. It certainly isn't a common occurance unless you mean with the S&W product. This leads me to ask what you people are doing wrong to cause this.

Many 15-22 rifles are experiencing OOB right out of the box with both rookies and pros such as yourself. Some folks go to extraordinary efforts with cleaning and inspection yet their rifles fail immediately. Others like me treat their rifles with, uh, er, um... shall we say less than extraordinary care yet shoot tens of thousands of rounds with no such failures. I've put 13k rounds through my 15-22. It's the rifle/ammo, not the operator.

It appears that S&W may have a remedy.... so far so good with a couple recent rifles being returned. Some of the earlier rifle returns ended up failing again. We'll see.

 

[27 Beck]

27 Beck; I don't need to read through these posts to see anything. I've spent the last 20 years standing on military ranges and haven't seen anything of the sort. I've owned lots of patterns of rifles and carbines. Most of my friends own one or two also. It certainly isn't a common occurance unless you mean with the S&W product. This leads me to ask what you people are doing wrong to cause this.

Glad to know that your 20 years of standing on military ranges has given you a lot of insight into firearms. Now with all of the knowledge, how about a solution to the OOBs?

 

[BELT_FED]

Shows how much I know about military ranges... I didn't even know they used rimfires... they must have forgot to issue them with the m240bs at aedc ..

 

[Thomas_H]

You've experienced an OOB (Out Of Battery).. this happens when the round is not all the way into the chamber when it fires.

Just wanted to correct you a little. It's not about whether or not the round is fully chambered, it's about whether or not the bolt is in battery, or has failed to stay battery long enough. The round could be fully chambered and still have a OOB discharge. May sound nit-picky, but it's important to understand.

 

[lonejacklarry]

Shows how much I know about military ranges... I didn't even know they used rimfires... they must have forgot to issue them with the m240bs at aedc ..

I guess it must be very new, B_F. I go back to M14s, M16s, and my personal favorite, the M60 (see how old I am?) and I never saw a rimfire rifle. Maybe the military is saving a few training bucks in these tight times. I would like to burn up a green can, or two, in a M240, however.

 

[ladder13]

22 rimfire training rifles were routinely used by the US military up until WWII. Foreign troops like the Romanians used 22 trainers past that time.
The CMP sold Mossberg 22's until just recently, with US Property markings on them.

 

[lonejacklarry]

22 rimfire training rifles were routinely used by the US military up until WWII. Foreign troops like the Romanians used 22 trainers past that time.
The CMP sold Mossberg 22's until just recently, with US Property markings on them.

Well, I'm old but not that old! I stand corrected.

 

[ladder13]

Well, I'm old but not that old! I stand corrected.

I'm not that old either. I do have a Mossberg 44US though,and bought it when the CMP was selling them. The rifle is quite heavy, probably to emulate the weight of the M1 Garand and 1903's that were being issued to US servicemen.
Lots of Remington 22's were also used as training implements.

 

[browningautorifle]

Brett248vista; Fair enough men! I'll watch myself. Beltfed; Yes we issued 22 sub cals in FNs and boy do they roar.Lonejacklarry; I too was issued an M60 at one point and carried an M14 in the field. The issue about oob failure is what we're talking about. We have some S&W purchases here but I think most of those haven't been used that much. And as I said in the first answer, I would send the rifle back to originator for correction. I bought one of their 40 cal M&Ps and had mag drop problems through 7 mag catches. I can't send it back from Canada as we won't get it back. I liked the gun but couldn't live with it. The M&P 15 looks good but the redesign of the working parts obviously are the problem. Is it fully locked when firing? If there's a reduced size pin holding the extractor then what else was changed?

 

[browningautorifle]

Question: are the chambers on these undersize? has anyone checked with a ream, just to see if it phisically fits? I don't mean go hogging out metal, but I've had some different things with excessively tight factory chambers. After all, EVERYONE isn't having this happen...just the odd one?

 

[Brett248Vista]

I honestly don't think it's a chamber issue, just from what I've seen, it's a combination of ejector adjustment (look up the vids on youtube and you will see how simply bending the adjuster clears a lot of FTE issues) I also think that they have made revision changes to the extractor, which I am surprised is not "pinned" but rather just retained by spring pressure. And I also think S&W has been working on the recoil and hammer spring pressures. The reason I say this is that my SN DTM came back with completely different hammer and recoil springs than what it went out with.

It seems to me that if your recoil and hammer springs were either too high of a spring rate or too low of a spring rate then you would run into bolt cyclic issues and I honestly think that's the cause of OOB on this rifle, the bolt either wasn't going back far enough, fast enough, or was going back to fast.

I won't be able to say with utmost certainty till I put a few thousand rounds through mine, but after 150 rounds today it performed 100%.

 

[jasonmb]

Just a update...
Spoke with S&W this am, they are sending the return label. They didnt really ask all that many questions, just simply said "No problem we will take care of it"

I was using CCI MIni mag's and did have the anti roll pin .. anyhow thanks!

 

[hairtumor]

I honestly don't think it's a chamber issue, just from what I've seen, it's a combination of ejector adjustment (look up the vids on youtube and you will see how simply bending the adjuster clears a lot of FTE issues) I also think that they have made revision changes to the extractor, which I am surprised is not "pinned" but rather just retained by spring pressure. And I also think S&W has been working on the recoil and hammer spring pressures. The reason I say this is that my SN DTM came back with completely different hammer and recoil springs than what it went out with.

It seems to me that if your recoil and hammer springs were either too high of a spring rate or too low of a spring rate then you would run into bolt cyclic issues and I honestly think that's the cause of OOB on this rifle, the bolt either wasn't going back far enough, fast enough, or was going back to fast.

I won't be able to say with utmost certainty till I put a few thousand rounds through mine, but after 150 rounds today it performed 100%.

I'm still in learning mode so bear with me, I have a DVA and have been getting frequent rounds stuck in the magazine (wish I had a picture) probally 1 in every 50. would that be considered a fte. The bullet's rim is wedged in the top of the mag and pointing up and I have to pry it out. Do you think that is something that needs to go back to S&W?

 

[john16443]

I'm still in learning mode so bear with me, I have a DVA and have been getting frequent rounds stuck in the magazine (wish I had a picture) probally 1 in every 50. would that be considered a fte. The bullet's rim is wedged in the top of the mag and pointing up and I have to pry it out. Do you think that is something that needs to go back to S&W?

Steve - a little clarification may help us here. Your DVA serial number indicates to me that it's a new rifle, correct? Since you're in San Diego like I am, you have 10 round mags. Do you have more than one? If so, is this happening on the same mag or on different ones? From your description, it appears to be a failure to load a round, not necessarily a failure to eject FTE, UNLESS there is a spent casing causing the bolt not to close.

Let's presume it isn't an ejection issue. Next let's make sure that when you're loading the mag, you are allowing the rounds to seat in their natural offset, similar to a double stack magazine in a Glock pistol. If you don't have this offset, it's been known to cause feeding problems. It may be worth watching the loading video stickied in the very first message on this forum: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-15-22/125703-m-p-15-22-instructional-video-series.html He gives some hints on loading to avoid problems.

Next let's look at the ammo. What are you using when this is happening, and is it happening only on a certain brand of ammo?

I'll be at the American Shooting range on Ruffin Rd. Tuesday about 4:00pm if you want to meet and compare notes.

John

 

[Brett248Vista]

Steve,

Failute To Feed is the issue your are experiencing. When a round stands on end, the rim gets jammed in the magazine lips and it goes vertical inside the chamber and won't load.

It could be from not staggering the rounds properly in the magazine. Watch my mag loading videos referenced above. It could also be a defective magazine (it happens) if you rule out the loading of the magazines as the culprit then send an email to S&W customer support and let them know you have a defective magazine. I'm sure they will replace it for you.

 

[hairtumor]

Steve - a little clarification may help us here. Your DVA serial number indicates to me that it's a new rifle, correct? Since you're in San Diego like I am, you have 10 round mags. Do you have more than one? If so, is this happening on the same mag or on different ones? From your description, it appears to be a failure to load a round, not necessarily a failure to eject FTE, UNLESS there is a spent casing causing the bolt not to close.

Let's presume it isn't an ejection issue. Next let's make sure that when you're loading the mag, you are allowing the rounds to seat in their natural offset, similar to a double stack magazine in a Glock pistol. If you don't have this offset, it's been known to cause feeding problems. It may be worth watching the loading video stickied in the very first message on this forum: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-15-22/125703-m-p-15-22-instructional-video-series.html He gives some hints on loading to avoid problems.

Next let's look at the ammo. What are you using when this is happening, and is it happening only on a certain brand of ammo?

I'll be at the American Shooting range on Ruffin Rd. Tuesday about 4:00pm if you want to meet and compare notes.

John

thanks for the reply, to answer your questions I'm using Winchester 555 bulk packs from Walmart, I've watched Brett's videos very carefully and always check my mags after loading to ensure they are correct. As far as my mags go I picked up 4 brand new 25 round s&w mags from 44mag and as far as I can tell it's pretty random. I guess I need to pay attention and mark the offending mag and see if it's just one or all. I'd love to go shooting but I'm working mon and tues. Keep me in mind for future shoots. Thanks.

 

[hairtumor]

Steve,

Failute To Feed is the issue your are experiencing. When a round stands on end, the rim gets jammed in the magazine lips and it goes vertical inside the chamber and won't load.

It could be from not staggering the rounds properly in the magazine. Watch my mag loading videos referenced above. It could also be a defective magazine (it happens) if you rule out the loading of the magazines as the culprit then send an email to S&W customer support and let them know you have a defective magazine. I'm sure they will replace it for you.

Thanks for the reply Brett,
I follow the load procedure on your vid. If it is a bad mag and I send it to s&w, being in Calif I'm afraid they might replace it with a CA compliant 10 round. I guess if it is the mag 44mag should exchange it

 

[Brett248Vista]

Steve,

Yep I would first see if I could narrow it down. Maybe number the mags with a white crayola 1 through whatever. See if the issue happens on one particular mag. If you can nail it down to 1, then I'd say it's a defective mag.

 

[Triggs75]

You might want to look at the magazine itself. I have a 10round mag and a 10/25 that is came with. When I used the 10rd short mag I was getting the FTE's, so when I looked at the two mag's next to them that is when I saw what the issue was.

The issue on the 10rd short mag was with the feed helper installed it was not allowing the tongue of the mag to come up all the way. When I held the two mags next to each other the 10rd Short mag tongue was lower thus not allowing the round to go in the chamber on the right slope.

I removed the feed helper and this allowed the tongue of the mag to extend all the way up for the round to enter the chamber without anymore FTE's.. So thus my mp15-22 has had no FTE's when corrected on that mag.

Chad