M&P 2.0 45 for duty/trigger pull

[suthrncop66]

Sorry but this is going to be kind of long......but here goes
Our Department has had a issued Glock only policy for some time, 9 or 40. They recently revised the policy to allow deputies to carry their own and included 45 acp. The policy allows, Sig, Smith, HK, Walther and Ruger....No FN but included Ruger?? The weapon must be striker and have a minimum 5 lb trigger pull as tested by our range...I'm not going to get much into the mechanics of testing a trigger pull but it is almost comedic watching our range guys fuddle with the trigger gauge....Well the 5 lb trigger pull is becoming quite an issue, as all straight trigger Sigs seem to be failing but curved triggers are passing, some of our glocks seem to be failing too....I decided on either a Smith M&P 2.0 45 or a FN 545 Tactical for capacity. Since FN is not approved, Smith it is....I have several M&P's including a 10mm, and a few Shields which are my preferred off duty carry's. Took my 2.0 to be tested and the trigger is at an average of 4.97 on the Lyman trigger gauge, so it failed. Took it to a local shop and it measured 5.5-6 on a cheaper Wheeler gauge. Don't want to throw money down a rabbit hole buying night sights, dot plate, dot and holster for nothing.....Thinking about the Apex Duty trigger but it advertises reducing the trigger pull by about 1 lb bringing it to about 5.....or by their standard 3.97???????? It comes with a curved trigger which may be just what I need. Any other suggestions??? Our policy also states no modifications to the trigger but with the way all of the straight faced triggers are failing, they are reconsidering that portion of the policy..

 

[M29since14]

So they failed your weapon for 0.03 pounds light on the trigger pull. Good grief. I wonder if they considered the actual inspection capabilities of their gages?

 

[GnarlsR2]

I’ve done trigger pull testing on all my firearms over the past 5 years.

I use two digital gauges – Lyman and Wheeler.

It is amazing how much deviation, or lack of accuracy, and consistency there is during my pulls.

I typically do 7 pulls on each gauge and then average the 14 pulls.

Unfortunately, if the gauge(s) being used are NOT certified for calibration and accuracy it’s just very subjective testing.

 

[suthrncop66]

I’m probably more venting than anything really lol. The tried to explain something along the lines of the the decimal portion of the reading is tenths and 16 ounces in a pound so it is actually several ounces off. At that point I just chuckled and left. I am probably going to do the Apex duty trigger that will reduce it a pound and try with the curved trigger it comes with. Then tell them I lowered the pull weight after lol

 

[mscampbell2734]

The Apex kits come with multiple springs so you can adjust the trigger for what feels good to you. You can also adjust the final pull weight withing a significant range, something like 3-6.5 pounds if I remember right.

 

[Saudade]

According to Lyman, the digital gauge is accuracy is:

Resolution:
0 - 5lbs: ± .1oz
5 - 12lbs: ± .5oz

Of course, where you place the "roller" on the trigger matters too. Farther away from the pivot pin gives you more leverage and a lower pull weight. With curved triggers, your finger (or the roller) naturally falls in the "valley" of the trigger for more consistent placement. With flat triggers you can reach a bit further down. Personally, I prefer curved triggers (although I'm not a fan of the M&P hinged triggers but still have them on my 1.0s)

 

[mscampbell2734]

Sorry but this is going to be kind of long......but here goes
Our Department has had a issued Glock only policy for some time, 9 or 40. They recently revised the policy to allow deputies to carry their own and included 45 acp. The policy allows, Sig, Smith, HK, Walther and Ruger....No FN but included Ruger?? The weapon must be striker and have a minimum 5 lb trigger pull as tested by our range...I'm not going to get much into the mechanics of testing a trigger pull but it is almost comedic watching our range guys fuddle with the trigger gauge....Well the 5 lb trigger pull is becoming quite an issue, as all straight trigger Sigs seem to be failing but curved triggers are passing, some of our glocks seem to be failing too....I decided on either a Smith M&P 2.0 45 or a FN 545 Tactical for capacity. Since FN is not approved, Smith it is....I have several M&P's including a 10mm, and a few Shields which are my preferred off duty carry's. Took my 2.0 to be tested and the trigger is at an average of 4.97 on the Lyman trigger gauge, so it failed. Took it to a local shop and it measured 5.5-6 on a cheaper Wheeler gauge. Don't want to throw money down a rabbit hole buying night sights, dot plate, dot and holster for nothing.....Thinking about the Apex Duty trigger but it advertises reducing the trigger pull by about 1 lb bringing it to about 5.....or by their standard 3.97???????? It comes with a curved trigger which may be just what I need. Any other suggestions??? Our policy also states no modifications to the trigger but with the way all of the straight faced triggers are failing, they are reconsidering that portion of the policy..

Sorry just double checked the Apex website. The range for their kit is 2.75-5.2 lbs. Considering most factory Smith triggers range from 4.5-5.5 I think you Department is not being realistic. Even in law suit happy Southern California for the LAPD the 1911 trigger limit is 3.5

 

[LVSteve]

I was going to suggest the Springfield Armory XD in 45. Mine feels like about 5 lbs, but I gather they are not on the approved list.

 

[suthrncop66]

Actually I forgot Springfield, they are I didn’t think they have the capacity I’m looking for. Being rural I wanted a high capacity

 

[suthrncop66]

I have an xd in 10mm it just is so big in my hands lol

 

[LVSteve]

Actually I forgot Springfield, they are I didn’t think they have the capacity I’m looking for. Being rural I wanted a high capacity

My 5" XD Tactical takes 13 round mags.

 

[suthrncop66]

I'll check that out if this doesn't pan out, thanks

 

[tgiv]

My 5" XD Tactical takes 13 round mags.

Tackhammers in my hand, so AGREE

 

[hike]

If they failed your pistol for having 4.97 versus 5.0 pull weight, my question is, "What have You done to piss them off?"
With my pull guage, I can easily manipulate the gauge (placement on the trigger) to change the weight. Why didn't they do that to turn 4.97 into 5.0.
You've got greater problems with the trainers than you realize. Maybe it's time to do something different?

 

[Stickgunner]

You have a lot of replies from people who clearly are not, nor have ever been a police officer. What the range did was correct. If there is a WRITTEN POLICY, it must be followed. Would it be ok if the officer fudged probable cause? What if the officer put only MOST of the dope in evidence? You guys who are making comments that it is close enough are so far off base it makes me wonder if you ever raised your hand and took an oath wearing ANY uniform.

As a long time cop, firearm instructor, range officer, FTO, tactics instructor and on and on, there is a simple way to go about it IF, and only if you are dead set on this weapon. If you are just complaining about your department, hey, I get it. The answer is for you to contact S&W and send the weapon back, and write to them that it failed the department trigger test. Let them know that you need in writing that your unaltered S&W meets the 5lb trigger pull, and if they find it does not, ask them to replace the fire control assembly or connector so that it will meet the requirement, the document it with 5 continuous pulls on a trigger scale.

Once you have the weapon back from S&W, go to your range Sgt and explain how the weapon fits your hand better, and allows for a better and more natural shooting, as well as an more natural and instinctive point of aim. Write it to him in an EMAIL SO THERE IS A TRACKING history, and send along a copy of the S&W factory paperwork (make sure it has your serial number). Make sure to CC your own Sgt in the email.

There are a few reasons to do it the above way, but this will rock the boat the least. It also puts the department in a position to defend itself. Can they authorize the weapon platform, yet still disregard what the factory says? No, realistically they can not, you will effectively have blocked them from doing anything other than a spite move saying no. In which case, you use your Sgt, and start going up the chain of command until you get to your training Assistant Chief or Captain. Your admin will understand that you are being respectful, yet stating your choice is being denied even though their own policies allow for it.

If that isn't enough, and this is the hill you want to plant your sword on..... I know other ways to make it happen. Remember to keep your Sgt in the loop, and that written documentation is your friend.

Lastly, and speaking as a range guy. Don't EVER be the dumbshat who decides to modify your weapon without getting it cleared, and don't be the guy who wants to hop around changing out duty guns like you change your underwear. Guys like that can be told no (even with the above), because you will have demonstrated a documented pattern of not staying with a firearm. In which case, the range Sgt is within his rights to simply say, "Son, learn to use one gun and stop chasing a dream".

Stay safe brother!!

 

[suthrncop66]

If they failed your pistol for having 4.97 versus 5.0 pull weight, my question is, "What have You done to piss them off?"
With my pull guage, I can easily manipulate the gauge (placement on the trigger) to change the weight. Why didn't they do that to turn 4.97 into 5.0.
You've got greater problems with the trainers than you realize. Maybe it's time to do something

Interrupt the movies they’re watching

 

[suthrncop66]

You have a lot of replies from people who clearly are not, nor have ever been a police officer. What the range did was correct. If there is a WRITTEN POLICY, it must be followed. Would it be ok if the officer fudged probable cause? What if the officer put only MOST of the dope in evidence? You guys who are making comments that it is close enough are so far off base it makes me wonder if you ever raised your hand and took an oath wearing ANY uniform.

As a long time cop, firearm instructor, range officer, FTO, tactics instructor and on and on, there is a simple way to go about it IF, and only if you are dead set on this weapon. If you are just complaining about your department, hey, I get it. The answer is for you to contact S&W and send the weapon back, and write to them that it failed the department trigger test. Let them know that you need in writing that your unaltered S&W meets the 5lb trigger pull, and if they find it does not, ask them to replace the fire control assembly or connector so that it will meet the requirement, the document it with 5 continuous pulls on a trigger scale.

Once you have the weapon back from S&W, go to your range Sgt and explain how the weapon fits your hand better, and allows for a better and more natural shooting, as well as an more natural and instinctive point of aim. Write it to him in an EMAIL SO THERE IS A TRACKING history, and send along a copy of the S&W factory paperwork (make sure it has your serial number). Make sure to CC your own Sgt in the email.

There are a few reasons to do it the above way, but this will rock the boat the least. It also puts the department in a position to defend itself. Can they authorize the weapon platform, yet still disregard what the factory says? No, realistically they can not, you will effectively have blocked them from doing anything other than a spite move saying no. In which case, you use your Sgt, and start going up the chain of command until you get to your training Assistant Chief or Captain. Your admin will understand that you are being respectful, yet stating your choice is being denied even though their own policies allow for it.

If that isn't enough, and this is the hill you want to plant your sword on..... I know other ways to make it happen. Remember to keep your Sgt in the loop, and that written documentation is your friend.

Lastly, and speaking as a range guy. Don't EVER be the dumbshat who decides to modify your weapon without getting it cleared, and don't be the guy who wants to hop around changing out duty guns like you change your underwear. Guys like that can be told no (even with the above), because you will have demonstrated a documented pattern of not staying with a firearm. In which case, the range Sgt is within his rights to simply say, "Son, learn to use one gun and stop chasing a dream".

Stay safe brother!!

I came from a PD that allowed us to carry our own, retired after 27 years and began a second career with the SO here now going on 7 years. In our area they are both under the same Personnel Board so they keep you at near your rate of pay and Vacation seniority but you go under a state retirement to earn a second. I genuinely dislike Glocks which were issued and required here until recently so I think they are getting tired of the influx of deputies changing to personal weapons. They recommended going with the Apex because I think they read it wrong and thinks it adds 1 lb. I think it may be my best option because with the curved trigger it will pass and I’ll have their blessing to have the trigger changed. Thanks for the other advice I’ll keep it in mind if I decide to push it.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

For the OP - S&W makes heavier-weight trigger return springs for their M&Ps. It's a factory part, and it's easy to install. The quick way to fix your situation would be to call S&W and have them send the part. A slower but maybe better way would be to send them your pistol and have them do it. I'm pretty sure they put LEOs at the front of the line at the factory.

I've got two M&P45 1.0s, and I fully understand why you'd want to carry one.

 

[suthrncop66]

I’ll call them tomorrow