M&P extractor

deadeye480

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Just had the 5th extractor break from 3 different M&P pistols, 1 FS 40, 1-5" 40 Pro and 1-5" 9 Pro., all breaking off the top half of the extractor in exactly the same place. Just had to buy replacements from M&P, they won't warranty them. Extractors are back-ordered (and they say there is no problem w/their extractors). Anyone else having M&P extractor problems? BTW these are series 1 M&Ps. Sorry for the long post.
 
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Thank you sir for the response, no steel case, mostly factory win white box, some reloads, 130 pf loads (IDPA). Have checked on Apex extractors, thought they were made for series 2 M&P. Will do more checking. Thanks again.
 
Sure. I think they make them for both the 1.0 and 2.0 models.

I'm surprised S&W wouldn't want to get to the bottom of this issue. Sounds pretty serious to me....that extractor is at the heart of the gun. Please try to let us know what you end up doing extractor wise....and how this works out.
 
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I’ve got a M&P40, a M&P9 full size and M&P9 CORE that have many thousands of rounds without extractor issues. I used to compete with the 40 and still compete in Carry Optics with the CORE so they aren’t getting gentle treatment. Guess I’ve been lucky, but I don’t know anyone else who has had extractor problems with their M&P.


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Do you by any chance drop the first round in the barrel and then drop the slide, rather than letting it be stripped off of the magazine?
 
Thanks to everyone who responded. I always load from a magazine. Offered S&W to mail the broken extractors to them, weren't interested. Have 3 coming from S&W when in stock, may not have a choice but to spend $130 for Apex extractors. Have been shooting IDPA, USPSA, NRA Action Pistol for 22 plus years, using Glocks and other brands, never this problem.
 
When I retired, we'd been using 1.0 M&P40s for 9 years and, SFAIK, never broke an extractor. We shot a lot, too.

It could be they had a bad batch of extractors. Or, you're doing something that encourages the issue. Uh, you're using stock recoil spring assemblies and replacing them every 5K rounds right? The softer recoil springs that some find so trendy might be the problem. Also, based upon my experiences with WWB, I'd consider changing ammo.
 
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I have two Shields with a combined 12,600 rounds, and an M&P 40c with 15,000 rounds, all with no extractor problems. I'm amazed that S&W won't warranty extractors, as they've fixed everything else I've had a problem with.
 
I am using after market un-captured guide rods w/ISMI 13# springs. Had not considered that. Certainly worth a try going back to factory recoil assy.. Thank you all for your input. Also ordering a Apex extractor.
 
The Customer Service folks at Apex IMO know more about the S&W M&P line than your average S&W CS rep. Give Apex a call about your problems. They will probably help you pinpoint your problem better.
 
Good idea, talking w/apex.. Would really be disappointed if I couldn't tune my M&Ps recoil springs and loads for major or minor like I do with 2011s, 1911s or anything else I shoot. Thank you everyone for your input. What a great resource.
 
I've used a wide variety of different weight recoil springs in various guns over the years -- from very light, to very heavy, and even a couple of variable-rate springs -- and never saw a difference in extractor wear or function. That said, I will acknowledge there are many things I don't understand about the subtleties of gun function. Maybe someone here can explain how a light recoil spring might affect extractor life.

I think extractors tend to break when they have to deal with pressures that make them bend farther than intended -- which usually only happens when trying to push an extractor OVER the rim of a chambered round, or when the extractor itself is defective (as might be the case with a bad batch, as mentioned earlier.) But a bad batch generally affects more than one gun owner.
  • Feeding a round shouldn't cause a lot of pressure against the extractor, as the incoming round's rim is fed upwards and slips under the extractor. Unless something is wrong with the chamber, causing the round to feed at an awkward angle (not likely), it ought to be a simple, straight push as the slide closes.

  • If the breech face was damaged that might cause something to go askew... but even that doesn't make sense -- since three different guns have the same problem.

  • Extracting a round shouldn't cause a lot of pressure against the extractor, either, as the extractor is pulling the casing form the chamber.

  • Unless you ordered all three extractors at the same time, and all came from the same "lot" of extractors, that's not likely. A bad "lot" should have affected others, as well.
I hope APEX's customer service staff can help; as others have noted, Apex engineers and designers seem to know MORE about the M&P line than do some of the S&W designers.

Randy Lee's discussion and explanations here on the forum about M&P 1.0 9mm slide stretch and how it affected 9mm accuracy was something S&W missed.
 
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During the first several years of M&P pistol production it was very difficult to find any reports of extractor failure/breakage. One time I was told that the factory had only gotten 1 or 2 guns back with broken extractors in the first several years of production.

The M&P I-beam extractor was one they were able to use across the whole model line in the original M&P 9, .40, .357 & .45 models. It was overbuilt on the hook, which we were told had been done so the shoulder ahead of the hook would resist damage if someone had to perform a failure-to-extract drill that required running the slide forward to attempt to recapture a stuck case. (No, we were also told that the company hadn't changed its recommendation of directly loading the chamber without using the magazine. They just wanted to give LE users a bit of extra strength in that regard, in case needed.)

I learned of 2, perhaps 3, revisions over time to the M&P standard extractor.

The first one I was told about involved making the hook edge a bit "sharper", and giving it a bit more rearward rake. It was intended to help give the hook a better purchase on case rims if someone was using "hot" ammo.

The next one I saw during one of the armorer updates, when we were told they made the hooks a little longer. The revised extractors shown to us in the class had an etched "L" on it (scribed by hand, where it couldn't be seen when installed).

Then, just a little while later, when I was ordering some spare parts, I noted the new M&P extractors included the name "Phillips" (sic?) in the part description. When I called and asked some about it, I was told it was the latest revision, but they couldn't give me specifics of what had been revised. I later wondered if the earlier extractors with the hand-marked "L" I'd seen in the class, said to be brand new, had been an early batch of this current extractor, but I never called to ask.

Now, last I knew (I'm due to need a 6th M&P pistol class in another year or so, and a second Shield class), the Shield 45 uses a unique extractor. It contains a lengthwise hollow cavity in which an additional plunger and spring are nestled, captured by the front of the cavity and indexed off the extractor pin.

Also, while I haven't yet done armorer class on the 2.0 models, I was told by someone at the factory that the 2.0 slides are a little different for extractors, and there's a special boss to prevent extractor mix up. Have to get the details next time around. There aren't that many 2.0 guns in-service at my former agency (less than 100, I think, as the main issued M&P's are still the late production "1.0's" in 9, .40 & .45), so it's not like I need to update on the 2.0's quite so soon.

What's interesting is that in the last current parts lists for the M&P's and the Shield pistols, there isn't a "recommended" service or replacement interval for the extractors. The locking block and ejector are recommended for service replacement at 20,000 round intervals, but nothing listed for the extractor. They've been found to be a pretty durable part in exhaustive factory testing in the last 13 years of production.

Now, if the extractor breakage is happening to the OP in 3 different M&P's, I might be inclined to look more toward the common factor (extractor batch manufacture) than the 3 slides. The extractors are MIM, so they're made in batches.

If the customer service person at S&W wasn't interested in having the broken ones mailed back (or preferably the guns, under warranty?), it might be because he/she didn't think the assigned person who receives broken parts would be interested. (I spoke with one the CS contacts for LE several years ago, and he told me one of his jobs was to be the guy who received all returned broken/damaged parts, to inspect them and decide if they needed to be kicked up the line elsewhere for further examination.)

Might also be because they'd already identified that some production batch in which they'd received owner/user feedback of a few that didn't withstand the normal heavy usage. Dunno. Never say never.

Now, when I attended one of the early M&P field armorer classes ('07) we were required to buy a factory Go/No-Go Extractor Bar gauge for .40 S&W so we could check extractor fit. They later dropped that requirement. No more Bar gauges or fitting. Just the plastic pistol tool kit.

As a matter of fact, that change came along before they even produced extractor Bar gauges for armorers for the 9/.45 slides. I know, as I'd kept calling, wanting to get a Bar gauge for each M&P caliber to add to my armorer kit (I have them for all the 3rd gen calibers and the original SW1911). I kept being told they were studying it. One day they finally told me that it had finally been decided that manufacturing methods and production tolerances we now so close and uniform that armorers wouldn't need to "fit" M&P extractors, like had been needed in 3rd gen and SW1911's.

OP, if you could part with one of your 3 guns for a few weeks, to have it returned under warranty, and send a letter detailing the round count and breakage, it might be interesting to see if they did anything more than replace the extractor (and spring).

Never say never.

Just some thoughts.
 
Never had an extractor issue with my two M&Ps: 9mm and 40 S&W. I've used each to shoot over 5,000 rounds in USPSA competitions. Sorry about your difficulties. I've heard good things through the grapevine concerning Apex products. I have Apex Flat Face trigger and sear kits in both my pistols. As the stock extractors aren't broken, I didn't fix them.
 
Rant

Apex. Apex. Apex. Why should we be expected to immediately turn to Apex to make good on S&W's failures? Yeah I know Apex makes excellent products, but we, as owners, need to hold S&W's feet to the fire in regard to their lifetime service policy. By saying, "Oh, why bother with S&W, when we can quickly buy from Apex.", we're letting S&W off the hook. An "Apex first" approach should only be used when you need to have your gun fixed asap. If you can afford a week or so for factory repair, do it. If owners start turning first to Apex, S&W might eventually conclude that there's little need to improve their products, or even offer a lifetime service policy.
 
After 3 broken S&W extractors, I switched to the Apex Tactical Failure Resistant Extractor so far so good.
 
Departing the extractor issue for a moment, I'd like to address something that's come up in the discussion. I'll preface these remarks with the note that I competed in "practical" competition for over 30 years, starting with IPSC and ending with TPC (Tactical Police Competition) and, long ago, built 1911s for a wide variety of people to support my shooting. .

Folks, you cannot widget your way to either competence or excellence. Entirely too many people seek hardware solutions for software problems. In the process they've made a goodly number of widget makers comfortable to wealthy. Yes, you need good sights, triggers and reliability. Beyond that, you need practice/training far more than you need to spend time and money trying to improve on what the factory engineers produced.

The Prime Directive of "practical" competition is Thou Shalt Not Waste Time. To do this you need to focus on fundamentals. A couple of examples:

The difference between an A/Zero zone hit and one that isn't is about 1/10 of a second. Take that 1/10 of a second.

Massive amounts of time are often wasted in poor movement/body position. Choreography can be a really, really, big time saver and will make a much greater difference than, say, which recoil spring you're using.

Finally, a gem from the training view: Amateurs practice until they get something right. Professionals (and champions) practice until they can't do it wrong.

I could go on, and on, but I think I've got the message over without departing too far from the subject at hand.
 
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W R Moore said:
Massive amounts of time are often wasted in poor movement/body position. Choreography can be a really, really, big time saver and will make a much greater difference than, say, which recoil spring you're using.

Bruce Gray, the head of Gray Guns, the go-to place for H&K and SIG upgrades, in addition to being a stellar gunsmith, was -- in his younger days, one of the best of the top-end competitive (combat) shooters.

Bruce made the point, time and again, that your movement on the course of fire (not your gun's movement) makes up a very significant part of the total time spent during a match, and learning to physically move quickly and efficiently is one of the best ways to improve your times, once you've gotten some of the other basics somewhat under control.

When we had Larry Brown -- who was (maybe still is) an IPSC Int'l Grand Master, an instructor for Special Ops troops at Ft. Bragg, and a gifted instructor for members of our IDPA club -- join us for several matches, watching him on the course of fire was a bit like watching a time/motion expert at work. (With IDPA you don't really get the same chances to plan your movement like you MIGHT in some of your other venues. He was smooth. But you would have thought he had practiced! He didn't, 'cause I designed the courses of fire for our indoor range, and nobody saw them until the course of fire was used. He just THOUGHT that way!)
 
Wow, thank all of you for all of the information and suggestions. Trying to absorb it all. I am not a gunsmith nor do I pretend to be one. But am pretty good at common sense. Right now, waiting on extractors, and take one thing at a time. Thanks again.
 

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