M&P pre war lanyard hole

[S&W500 MAG]

I have an M&P pre war that left the factory April 1941. It has a lanyard hole on the bottom. My Jinks letter didn't say anything about a lanyard hole. Did Smith &Wesson put that hole there? it is not a victory model. Thanks for any info.

 

[OFT II]

If the serial number is offset to the front it's likely a factory installation. I've had a couple that didn't letter with the lanyard ring but you can tell that they were factory installed.

 

[opoefc]

As said above, what's the configuration of the hole vs. the serial number location? Where did the letter say the gun was shipped? What's the caliber of the gun? You can guess whether the destination was a location that would have ordered a gun with a lanyard swivel , such as a law enforcement unit or the British Purchasing Agency. Is there a factory plug in the hole, or is it missing the swivel? If Roy's letter didn't mention a butt swivel, then it wasn't recorded as such being present in the shipping records, however that is not any guarantee it didn't leave the factory with a butt swivel. Ed.

 

[DWalt]

At that time, very little was coming out of the S&W factory that wasn't going to the British military. If yours is chambered in .38 S&W, i.e., a .38/200 M&P, there is almost no way it wouldn't have been equipped with a lanyard loop. And of course it could not possibly have been a Victory Model until later in 1942. Your SN would likely be in the lower 700,000 range for an early 1941 .38/200.

 

[S&W500 MAG]

Thanks for the replies. The ser# is 7608XX. It was sent to a hardware company called Dunham, Carrigan, Hayden & co. in San Francisco. I don't know much about that company but I do know they were in hardware. The caliber is .38 special and letters as such. Looking at the butt the lanyard is off center to the right of the ser numbers. there is no plug

 

[DWalt]

I'd think it is a civilian M&P if it's chambered in .38 Special. A few were made in .38 Special starting at about that time, as the U. S. wasn't yet a combatant, at least actively. As the vast majority of revolvers coming off the production line then would have been intended for the British contract, I would imagine that virtually all frames at that time had lanyard swivel holes, and they just pulled out and used the same frames for what little civilian production was being performed, the only assembly change being the use of a .38 Special cylinder and stamping a different caliber on the barrel. But I have no way of knowing that.

4 or 5 months ago, I ran across a similar .38 Special revolver with a little higher SN, and it did not have a swivel or hole in the butt. I don't remember the SN, but I believe it was in the low 800000 area.

 

[gordonrick]

SN 760659 was a British contract 38/200. I had assumed virtually all production at that time was for the Commonwealth, but there you go - another S&W "never say never" moment.
4" barrel I assume?

 

[DWalt]

I need to correct my earlier statement above about a similar M&P revolver I saw several months ago. I made a note and just found it. What I actually saw was an M&P, in .38 Special, with a SN in the 760000 range, and it DID have a lanyard loop, contrary to my earlier statement. It was clearly civilian, and in like-it-just-left-the -factory condition. So my theory of both civilian and military revolvers using the same frame with lanyard hole during that period has some support.

 

[linde]

. . . So my theory of both civilian and military revolvers using the same frame with lanyard hole during that period has some support.

Just to add further support to that theory, I recently acquired a .38 Special 6" M&P s/n 827923 with lanyard swivel but no proof or U.S. Property markings. It shipped in October 1941 and Roy Jinks has confirmed it as being a late commercial shipment.

Russ

 

[DWalt]

SN 760659 was a British contract 38/200. I had assumed virtually all production at that time was for the Commonwealth, but there you go - another S&W "never say never" moment.
4" barrel I assume?

There is some indication that M&Ps chambered in .38 S&W Special went back into limited production sometime in early 1941 (I have seen 2/41 mentioned). And we know for sure that some .38 Special M&Ps were shipped by at least April or May 1941. But from about October 1940 until then, virtually all S&W production allegedly was .38/200s for a 4 to 5 month period. By the way, the 760,000 range SN .38 Special I saw had a 5" barrel.

 

[Hondo44]

To verify a factory installation of a lanyard ring:

Factory installed rings are always precisely 1/10” forward of center followed by the serial #.

If the serial number is already stamped on the butt at the time a lanyard ring is installed at the factory, it will be drilled thru but is re-stamped on the grip frame, under the left stock.

 

[larry21556]

My 6" M&P .38 Spl shipped 03/24/1941, also to San Francisco but another dealer. Letters with lanyard loop. Here is what the butt looks like.

 

[DWalt]

I have noticed that 1941 SNs and shipping dates are disconnected more than I would expect for that period of relatively full production. Some low numbers shipped very late in 1941 while some higher numbers shipped quite a bit earlier. Must have something to do with mixed military and civilian production scheduling before the U.S. was drawn into the war. I remember seeing one .38/200 with a SN near 700,000 which lettered as not shipping until I think around October. I would have thought they would have been going out the door as they came off the assembly line.

 

[S&W500 MAG]

larry21556. Mine looks just like that. Mine is a 4" barrel. I'm thinking that maybe the factory would put serial numbers on the frames then take a group and get them ready to military sale, Then when the civilian order comes in fill it with one that had not been set aside for the military. What surprises me is that the hole was not included in the letter from Mr. Jinks. This weapon was bought by a detective for Wells Fargo bank in San Francisco.

 

[larry21556]

Your guess is probably as good as anyone's. DWalt has noted a great disparity in production/shipping times so maybe you are right. As for the lanyard hole..if it isn't listed in the records, as so often happened, it won't be in the letter. I've seen some pages from old hand written records; deciphering them can be a chore.