M&P9c - Sight Picture? - After Market sights?

[EthanG-M&P]

Ok,

I have been reading through the forum, and been doing some Google research (love me my Google!), and have a few questions.

At the present time, I have the stock front and rear white dot sights on my M&P 9c. What "sight picture" should I be using with these? I notice that when I line up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sights, that the white dots don't align horizontally, and vise versa, when I line up the white dots horizontally, the top of the front and rear sights are aligned.

Which is correct, and what "sight picture" does that provide? I wish to better my aiming/grouping at the range. With the stock sights, the rear sight's uprights seemed to be spaced rather far apart, leaving the front sight to float in between them when trying to aim; which would lead to inaccuracy, I would think. I have shot a few Glocks which have the white line in back, along with the single line on the front sight, and not much space between the rear sight's uprights, and it seemed to give a better picture. The same can be said with the Ruger SRC9, which has the tighter back sights, but uses circles instead of the lines that the Glocks have.

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With that said, I have read a lot of talk about night sights recently, but I am not all that concerned about them. I am interested in options for replacement of the stock sights, that give a better sight alignment. Ones with a tighter rear sight and such.

I have checked out a few types, such as the XS Sight System:
XS Sight Systems - Handgun Sights - S&W M&P Express

I like the look of that, but how does it perform? Does anyone use these, and if so, what is your opinion on them?

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In the meantime, before I drop another $100 bucks into this gun (I just put the Apex trigger kit in), I was thinking about modding the stock sights. That is, paint the front and/or rear dots a more vibrant color, with either some glow in the dark paint, or nail polish. My father had done it on his old Ruger Mach 1, and it seems to make the sights much more visible.

Some might stick their nose up at that, but I don't see any issues with it. If there are any reasons I shouldn't do such a thing, please let me know.

Thanks for reading through!
--EthanG

 

[OKFC05]

The M&P9C is a compct carry pistol that is intended for self defense, and the sighting technique for self defense depends on the distance and the shooter skill. It is not a bullseye gun, and the sights are not optimum for bullseye competition at shooting small groups at 25 and 50 yards.

I start people out at 5 yds with a large sheet of paper having a paper plate in the center for the "bullseye." Concentrate on the front sight. I don't want the shooter trying to put all the shots in the same hole. The top of the sights should be level, with equal space on both sides of the front sight, and the bullet should hit at the top of the front sight, if the shooter knows proper grip and trigger control. Some start out shooting a foot low due to poor technique. The worst to teach are the ones who have been practicing poor technique a lot, and have a flinch THIS BIG.

Anyone can learn sight alignment in 10 minutes, but total trigger control takes thousands of rounds to master under all conditions, whether stressed, tired, or scared.

In the course Personal Protection Inside the Home the student shoots at different distances and uses different shooting positions, and comes under pressure to get the shot off sooner rather than later. In other words, the first basics of defense shooting, starting with the gun in hand. Eight hours of class, including some defense laws and 3 hours on the range. This is where the shooter learns by shooting that precise sight alignment at typical defense distances is not so important, while proper trigger control is vital.

In Personal Protection Outside the Home, a 14 hour course, the shooter learns and practices the fundamentals of defense shooting, which I won't try to cover in all detail here.
As to sighting, at close range, the focus is on the target and the shooter learns to point shoot. I think point shooting is a lot of fun, and have spent hundreds of hours practicing shooting quickly and accurately, before others can get their sight picture.
The shooter is using a holster now, and learns and practices how to safely draw and point shoot (Bill drill).
Beyond point shooting distance, the shooter, having learned by now how to hold the gun the same each time, learns to take a "flash sight picture" with just the front sight and get COM hits at 10-15 yds, often while moving to cover.
The use of cover is important, and the shooter learns the importance of using cover and movement to make less of a target.
In general, the slow careful shot at distance using the traditional alignment of the sights is reserved for long shots when safely behind cover. Other than that, it is not used much in defensive shooting.

After taking the NRA Basic Pistol and the two Personal Defense Courses, the shooter is ready to head to the IDPA club and practice the new skills under some simulated stress with their new friends.

Taking classes and learning the skills is far more valuable than new sights and add-ons.

As to painting your sights, paint them any color you want, but I'd just paint the front one. You're wasting too much time looking at the rear one already, if you're like most.

Here's a link to NRA courses and instructors in your area:
NRAInstructors.org - Portal for NRA certified Instructors, NRA Education and Training

 

[TOF]

FWIW: I have always considered the white dots as something to draw your eyes towards the sights but not as the aiming device. I don't like them. My recent preference is a green Fiber Optic front with serrated black rear. Specificaly Bowie/Ameriglo rear with a narrower than stock front FO of stock height. Narrower front is better for fast combat (read defensive) shooting.

For precision shooting the sights should be level front to rear and front post centered between rear with point of impact at or slightly above top of sights. My precision shooting is usualy used to bench test the gun or ammo from sandbags for consistancy when breaking in a new gun or load.

My M&P's, 9,40,45 and 45c all work well that way at 15 yards with most ammunition. By 25 yards you might experience a slight drop from the 15 yard POI but not enough to be concerned.
Ammo can cause a verticle shift of an inch or so but not enough to be important in a defense weapon.

 

[EthanG-M&P]

Taking classes and learning the skills is far more valuable than new sights and add-ons.

As to painting your sights, paint them any color you want, but I'd just paint the front one. You're wasting too much time looking at the rear one already, if you're like most.

I will have to look for some courses around my area in the future; thank you for that link.

Unfortunately, the club I currently belong to forces me to shoot at 50 feet (indoor pistol house), and doesn't allow quick drawing/rapid fire (where is the fun in that?).

So, despite the fact that I have the M&Pc, which yes, is has a shorter more inaccurate pistol and meant for close range, I am forced to get comfortable with it in a longer range environment/scenario. Still, I would like to improve my shooting all around, grouping included, despite the range.

I do shoot off a mount, and try to dial everything in, but things are still a bit off. I'm just not used to the pistol yet. I'm used to shooting 2-6 inch groups with my Ruger Mach I .22, even at 50 yards. Which leads me to believe that my technique, although not perfect, isn't bad. I admit, I have a much larger flinch with the M&P than I do my little .22, but I have decreased this by doing a trigger job on the M&P - making it much easier to squeeze the trigger effectively.

FWIW: I have always considered the white dots as something to draw your eyes towards the sights but not as the aiming device. I don't like them. My recent preference is a green Fiber Optic front with serrated black rear. Specificaly Bowie/Ameriglo rear with a narrower than stock front FO of stock height. Narrower front is better for fast combat (read defensive) shooting.

Yes, my eye has a hard time focusing in on the front sight, with the two white rear dots's color blending in.

I would be interested in moving to something like this (as you mentioned):
WTS - Sevigny Competition Sets - M&P Full/Compact MLE Shooting Sports Catalog

Are the better/worse manufacturers of such sites? I would really like to stay in the $50-$65 range. I just spent a good amount of money for, and on, this pistol already.

Thanks for the input, from you both,
--EthanG

 

[TOF]

The Warren front is ok, I have one. Their rear however was sharp and rather irritating in the IWB holster I use. The one I had was "Warren Tactical" which is a little different than the one you show a link to. That is why I suggested a Bowie/Ameriglo rear.

There are several brands of front that are good including Warren. I prefer ones with 1MM fibre diameter (.039"). and a bit narrower than stock.

 

[southchatham]

I switched to big dot xs sights. I don't really like 3 dot sights myself. I put these on my M&P and glock.

 

[EthanG-M&P]

Is it possible to just buy just the front sight, or rear sight separately? I haven't seen that as an option online.

 

[TOF]

Look Here:

AmeriGlo Weapon Sights | Smith & Wesson

and here

Warren Tactical S&W M&P Plain Rear & Fiber Optic Front

and here

www.dawsonprecision.com Home Page Find sights in lower left of page.

 

[EthanG-M&P]

Thanks for the links, TOF. I'm still trying to decide what is best, but with all my research, I haven't found anyone saying anything about about the XS sights!

YouTube - XS Big Dot Sights review

I'm leaning towards thought, although I haven't researched the sight picture on the Warren Tactical sights yet.

I'll keep everyone updated as I go along.