Metal Finishes for pre-Victory and Victory Revolvers

[DWalt]

It's often seen here that the phosphate metal finish used on the wartime M&Ps is referred to as "Black Magic" or sometimes "Midnight Black." I have never seen any substantiation that this terminology is correct.

In Roy Jinks' "History of Smith and Wesson," the terms "Black Magic" finish and "Midnight Black" finish are never used. The only references to the wartime M&P finishes are shown on page 163 which states: "...the Smith & Wesson .38/200 British Service revolver...early production models having a bright blue finish, and revolvers produced from December 4, 1941 to April 10, 1942 having a brush blue finish. After this date the revolvers were supplied with a sandblast parkerized finish."

From what I have read, it seems the pre-1942 "bright blue finish" is probably Carbonia, expensive and time consuming to produce. I am not sure exactly what the "brush" in "brush blue finish" means but it is reasonably certain that it involves a hot dip liquid oxide bluing process, similar to that widely used today. I have understood that it may have been what is called Du-lite black oxide hot finish. In fact, there is another old line Connecticut metal finishing chemical company named The Hubbard-Hall Co. that has for a great many years sold a very similar black oxide steel finish process under the trade name of "Black Magic" (surprise, surprise), and I therefore believe that this is what S&W probably used in the late 1941-early 1942 period.

I can see no possible reason why the post-April 10, 1942 finish would have been called "Black Magic" It is clearly a phosphate finish, which Jinks actually calls parkerizing, and depending on the exact chemical formulation used, the resulting phosphate finish could be anywhere from a dark gray to a black. I don't know if the stories seen about S&W having to develop their own phosphate process are true or not. I suspect not, especially as Jinks uses the term parkerizing instead of something else.

What seems to make the most sense to me is that the metal finish methodology progressed from bright blue (Carbonia) to hot dip brush blue (black oxide or "Black Magic") to phosphate (parkerizing).

In the interest of historical accuracy, can anyone authoritatively add further information or dispute this?

 

[samandglove1]

I would love to get a definitive answer also, if anyone has the information. I am very guilty of using the "black magic" term whenever describing the finish of Victory models. I have been doing it for so long that I'm not even sure where I picked it up.

 

[kwill1911]

I have examples of letters on Victory Model revolvers that use the following phrases:

"black magic finish"
"mid-night black finish"
"military midnight black finish"
"rough parkerized military finish"

 

[DWalt]

Maybe it would be simpler to just abolish the Black Magic and Midnight Black designations and adopt the terms Bright Blue (or Carbonia Blue), Hot Dip Blue (or Brush Blue), and Parkerized (or Phosphate) to describe the three non-plated finishes used for pre-Victories and Victories, as Jinks does. My current theory on Brush Blue is that it may have involved a final metal polish using a rotating fine wire brush wheel before the part went into the bluing chemical tank. That was later replaced by bead blasting as a final procedure prior to parkerizing.

 

[kwill1911]

All those terms I quoted are from letters written by Roy. I've never heard or seen him use the term "hot dip blue." "Parkerized" was a trademark of the Parker Rustproofing Co. so, even though it became a generic term for a phosphate finish, S&W (and other gun companies) tried not to use it.

 

[DWalt]

It just goes to show there is no consistency.

 

[DWalt]

More research and more information about finishes. Abstracted from the Carl Hellstrom notes regarding S&W revolver production during WWII:

"12/4/41- Finish changed from bright polish to Brush polish. All guns made during war effort after this had blue finish. Some were carbonia blued, but great majority had Black Magic Oxide Blue. Ser#s were about at 860,000. -- -- 4/10/42, Finish changed from brush polish blue to Sand Blast Blue. 1st shipment of .38 Special calibers with Sand Blast blue sent on Defense Supply Corp. orders this date. Ser#s at about 900,000. -- 5/1/42, 5/22/42 to 8/17/42 Some guns were Parkerized instead of Black Magic blue. These were all sandblasted. 2187 shipped between these dates to DSC orders. Navy did not get any Parkerized guns."

So it appears that the so-called brush blue treatment was mainly the Black Magic hot dip oxide finish (but also some received carbonia finish), and further, some revolvers received sandblasting (sand blast blue) instead of brushing prior to black oxide (Black Magic) treatment. Hellstrom specifically mentions parkerizing, and nothing proprietary that S&W came up with instead of Parkerizing. No mention is made of Midnight Black. "Navy did not get any Parkerized guns" - strange? Therefore, Brush (or Sandblast) Black Oxide (hot dip blue) = Black Magic, and very probably the Hubbard-Hall black oxide process. And most importantly, Parkerizing is definitely NOT Midnight Black or Black Magic. And some "Black Magic" black oxide finished revolvers were made as late as 8/17/42 before Parkerizing was used exclusively, about a 3-month transition period.

 

[opoefc]

I have several hundred Victory model letters in my files and the finish descriptions include all the names cited above, including "Parkerized." S&W did finish a few guns, early in the war, using Parkerizing, but when they were asked to pay a royalty to use Parkerizing, they switched to their own formulas. Ed.

 

[islandhopper]

A day late and a dollar short I know but I have a late 1942 to early 1943 Victory that is definitely sandblasted/blued. If you look at it with a magnifying glass (as I now have to do with close up stuff) you can see the fine pits left by the sand. But the internal areas have not been blasted and are course brushed, so to speak, like the late war 1911 pistols' finish. So the pistol appears almost a gray color but when wetted with gun oil you can see more of the blue tone. However those internal, hard to reach areas where the blasting did not affect the surface prep, it is more of a brushed blue.

 

[KEN L]

My letters say military midnight black finish. That's good enough for me!

 

[DWalt]

A day late and a dollar short I know but I have a late 1942 to early 1943 Victory that is definitely sandblasted/blued. If you look at it with a magnifying glass (as I now have to do with close up stuff) you can see the fine pits left by the sand. But the internal areas have not been blasted and are course brushed, so to speak, like the late war 1911 pistols' finish. So the pistol appears almost a gray color but when wetted with gun oil you can see more of the blue tone. However those internal, hard to reach areas where the blasting did not affect the surface prep, it is more of a brushed blue.

As previously noted, sandblasting (probably bead blasting) followed by hot dip oxide bluing (Black Magic) was still used as a finish to some extent until mid-August 1942 alongside phosphate finishing. It's evident that the so-called "Military Midnight Black Finish" was S&W's proprietary phosphate finish, similar to Parkerizing.

 

[islandhopper]

I am no media blasting expert but I wouldn't have thought glass beads would have been around in the 1940s. Could be though. I do know that Remington Rand, Colt and Ithaca used bluing over a lightly sandblasted surface at the beginning of their 1911A1 runs, changing over sometime in the 1943 range. If you look at a type II Remington Rand and my 1942/43 Victory real close with a magnifying glass, you can see the surface prep was the same.

 

[DWalt]

There were many types of blasting media other than sand in use prior to WWII. I don't know what type of media was in common use in the firearms industry at that time, but it was probably not sand.

 

[Texas Star]

I'm guessing that actual Parkerizing needs to be capitalized? I suspect that it's a registered trademark.

 

[wheelgun28]

I'm guessing that actual Parkerizing needs to be capitalized? I suspect that it's a registered trademark.

I would agree, but parkerizing (no capital) has become a generic term for phosphate finish. Just as Band-Aid has become bandaid for a self adhesive gauze bandage. Other example are coke for carbonated beverage, xerox for document reproduction, channel lock for water pump pliers etc.

 

[Arisaka99]

Contribution to an OLD thread. I believe this to be a transitional Parker Rust Prevention formula “pre-victory” from early April 1942 when S&W was exploring licensed use of the Parker patent. Not blasted; thinner, smoother, and lighter colored surface than S&Ws own later phosphate process. Small parts are all blued. Lower reference pistol in the two-pistol shot is SN V4302. Sorry for the external link; only way I know how to post photos here.

https://imgur.com/a/u5evtN1

 

[DWalt]

Aside from 2187 revolvers (all DSCs), those made after 2/42 were not Parkerized, but oxide blued, using Black Magic. There is an early 1942 letter from Army Ordnance to S&W specifying sand (bead, probably) metal blasting with 120 grit followed by a Black Magic finish. The Parkerized revolvers were from the period immediately before and after the V serial number prefix began.

 

[gmarshall99]

How timely is this discussion. I will be showing in Tulsa three Smiths with the different finishes.
1. Late Model 105 pre victory serial no.993435 which has a lighter parkerized finish.
2. A early victory with a 4 digit serial number V 2798 lettered with a black magic finish
3. An early post war serial number S847914 in standard blue.

I took photos but the light did'nt really show off the different finishes.

Swing by my table and see them.