Mis-Stamped 34? I-frame or J-frame? How to tell?

[Jim PHL]

I inquired on another forum about the build-date of a newly acquired Model 34 and got the following response:

"Your Model 34 .22/32 Kit Gun Model of 1953 was manufactured in 1973 and should be a 34-1. The -1 indicates the change from the .32 sized Improved I frame to the .38 Special sized J frame that occurred in 1960. Mis-stamped guns are not common, but did occur."

Can anyone offer any more information or know of a common resource to research this further (short of lettering it)? I'd like to get at least a little more info before I even consider lettering. I spent a good chunk of Sunday giving it a good soaking and cleaning after picking it up on my way home from work Friday. It came out looking really good. I'm so glad I gave it another look after initially passing on it. Especially after cleaning it up. If it looked this good when I first saw it I might have bought it on the spot. It certainly would not have still been there when I went back! Not perfect, mind you. Still a few marks. But the bore and cylinders are clean..If the 1973 date holds it's a nice blued gun that's just been handled and shot some in its' 40+ years.

This is a 4" Model 34; 6-shot .22LR; 4" barrel; blued with a tall front blade and adjustable rear sight. It is clearly stamped "MOD. 34" (not "-1") There are no other markings on the frame side of the crane. There is a 5-digit number on the inside of the crane itself. There are 5 straight-line serrations on the top of the barrel that line up with identical serrations that run the length of the rear site blade. Other than that the markings seem standard: "Smith & Wesson" on the left side of the barrel. ".22 Long Rifle CTG." on the right. Trademark on the left side of the frame under the cylinder release. "Made in the USA, etc" marking on the right side above the trigger guard forward of the cylinder retaining screw. The only other marking is the Serial number on the butt: "M68048".

I appreciate any additional information anyone can provide. Thanks in advance.

 

[murphydog]

As your other source mentioned, chances are high someone at the factory simply missed stamping the -1, a fairly common occurrence.

 

[george_lehr]

Per the SCSW, the 34-1 started with S/N 70000. There was also a slight change in cylinder length to 1.44". I don't know what the previous cylinder length was.
George

 

[Jim PHL]

Thanks, George. Does the SCSW show dates? I'm a little confused. What I've gathered so far is the 22/32 became the 34 in 1957. The 34 became the 34-1 with the change from the I-frame to the J-frame in 1960.

If the first 34-1 started at M70000, then maybe this is an I-frame 34 (with #68048). BUT, the person who responded on the other forum supposedly used the ser# to get the 1973 date. Even though a mis-stamp is not the most unique occurrence, I think it would be strange to have a "34-1" mistakenly stamped "34" thirteen years after the change, wouldn't it? I'm saying these are stamped, not hand-lettered, so why would a "34" (no "-1") stamp even exist in the factory so long after the change?

Based on the serial # I have a 34. Based on the 1973 production date (if correct) I have a 34-1.

Maybe someone could post a photo of an I-frame and SB J-frame next to each other? Are the differences obvious to the naked eye?

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Actually it went from the Improved I frame to the J frame. The improved I frame used a coiled mainspring rather than a leaf spring and was a bit bigger in the window, thus the different size in the cylinder. It ultimately evolved to the J frame. Check your gun-I bet it has a coiled mainspring which would make it either N improved I frame or a J frame. Does it have a flat latch? If so it is probably the earlier one. I am not sure but I do not think and model 34's (or any gun) post war was made on the I frame. A true I frame .22 is noticeably smaller and would be a prize indeed. I owned an I frame .32 and it was a wonderful little gun size wise. Had it been in .22 I would never have sold it..

 

[george_lehr]

The 34-1 started in 1960 at S/N 70000, not M70000. The M prefix serial numbers started in 1969 with S/N M1.
Is your S/N 68048, or M68048? If it's M68048, I'd agree that it's a 1973 gun and a Model 34-1.
George

 

[Jim PHL]

Definitely an "M". I still think it's a little strange that there even exists a "34" stamp in the plant thirteen years after it became the 34-1. I would think that a mis-stamp like that would be more common closer to the time when the change took place. I don't mind. Whether it's a 34 or a 34-1 it looks to be a keeper. If I had lucked into some kind of rarity (like a true model 34 on an "Improved I-Frame") that was worth bigger bucks I would be hesitant to shoot it.

CAJUNLAWYER; it has a standard cylinder release, not a flat. Also a coiled mainspring, not a leaf.

I should have it to the range tomorrow. (More unusual than a S&W mis-stamp is me having a new gun for almost a week without shooting it!!)

 

[JP@AK]

The M68xxx serial number is definitely from 1973, not pre-1960. The contoured latch is also a clear indicator of a later gun. This changed c. 1966.
You are putting way too much emphasis in your own mind on the "nonexistence" of a 34 stamp in 1973. They did not have a single stamp that they used to create the 34-1. This process was done by hand, and it could be easily missed if the operator (fitter) got distracted or whatever. So forget about it. You have a mis-stamped Model 34-1. Go shoot it.

Also, there is no big value plus for a Kit Gun made on the Improved I frame. Mine shipped in January, 1958, so it was one of the last shipped that did not have a model number. It is an Improved I frame revolver. It is lovely - approximately 98%. But I did not, nor would I, pay a huge premium just because it is a pre-J frame revolver. It's just a post-1953 Kit Gun.

 

[george_lehr]

QUOTE=Jim PHL;137835044]Definitely an "M". I still think it's a little strange that there even exists a "34" stamp in the plant thirteen years after it became the 34-1.

I don't think it's strange. Most of my Smith & Wessons are older guns and the stamped dash number is noticeably slightly different from the stamped model number, as would be the case when the dash number was stamped separately. The stamped dash number was likely inadvertently omitted on your gun, as has been disclosed in other posts on the forum discussing other guns/models.
George

I see that Jack already mentioned this.

 

[colt_saa]

Here are my two 34 snubbies.

Look at the forward end of the trigger guard. Notice the spacing difference of where the trigger guard is and where the end of the yoke is.

The J-frame has a noticeably longer distance over the IMPROVED I frame thus creating the larger cylinder window

 

[Jim PHL]

George; That's probably what happened. The way the "MOD. 34" is placed it is kind of centered on a thinner portion of the frame. There isn't any room to add the "-1". For there to be room for it, it would had to have been stamped a little higher up where that portion of the frame tapers out a little and the M still oriented a little more to the left for there to be room for the whole "MOD. 34-1".

JP@AK; No worries, friend. My panties ain't bunched up. Just curious about my new toy. Really looking forward to taking it to the range even though this thing begs to be carried in the woods with the barrel sticking through a hole in the back pocket of an old pair of jeans.

 

[s&wchad]

Jim,
The M serial number prefix started in 1969, a result of the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 which required unique serial numbers.

Your gun is definitely a Model 34-1 and is buit on the J frame. I had a Model 34-1 that was marked "MOD 34" and the serial number was very close to yours. Here are some photos that should help put the issue to bed; note the label and frame markings:

 

[Jim PHL]

Chad; Nice gun and nice pics. Especially the shot of the frame area. It shows what I was talking about. As stated in my last post, mine is stamped lower, closer the the cylinder hinge, and the -1 would not fit there even if they tried to put it there. If your "M" was further to the left they could probably fit a -1 if they had remembered to do it. It is also interesting that your model stamp has a dash after the "MOD" while mine has a "." I guess different tools at different work stations.