Model 10/M&P vs. Colt's Official Police

[sunday bill]

A few shooters in our rural community have enjoyed a fascination with Model 10s/earlier M&Ps this spring and summer. A few nay-sayers in the area claim they can remember the good ol days when owners of Colt Official Police revolvers regularly whupt up on the S&W boys.

Long tale short, a local shop came up with a tight example of a 6" Colt's O.P. I couldn't resist and traded for it today. Best I can cypher from the 'net, it was born about 1943 or '44 (serial # 7051XX), sports a heavy, tapered barrel (about which the Blue Book makes no mention of availability), decent non-adj. sights and a trigger only a few ounces heavier than my 6" 10-5.

First impressions during limited range-time this afternoon:

*15 rounds of 158 gr. cast RNFP/3.5 gr. Titegroup fired from each gun

*All shots fired two-handed at 15 yards, unsupported

*The Model 10's almost round, center-to-center group measured 2.125" with 5 shots impacting the 1" "10 ring"

*Although the Colt steered 6 shots into the 10 ring, its over-all center-to-center group spanned 3.375", in a somewhat vertically strung group

*In fairness to the O.P., its plastic (Coltwood?) grips are way too skinny for me. Twice I felt the gun move as the shot broke and called its two highest shots.

Until the Colt can wear grips that fit me better and other bullets/powder combinations can be tried, the temporary nod goes to the Model 10.

Either IBM No. 44 or LBM No. 44 has been inscribed on the Colt's butt in an Old English hand-done font. Could someone offer enlightenment as to what those letters might stand for (if not someone's initials)?

 

[j38]

Thank you for the range report. It sounds like you had some fun with it. It's always interesting to shoot the guns that used to be carried by LEO's all around this country, and see how it felt - especially, as you discovered, sporting some of the grips they were issued with!

I suspect that the S&W vs Colt accuracy question is a lot like comparing Chevy to Ford - everyone will have their own opinion. My KCPD RM shoots a little more accurately than my Colt New Service (also in .357 magnum), but the S&W has a super-smooth trigger pull - compared to the almost new, stiffer trigger on the Colt. I just picked up a Colt Officer's Model in 22LR which I'll soon put up against my K22 - both from 1948 - to see if one is clearly superior.

Thanks for your post,

Jerry

 

[dhartz]

According to Pate's US HANDGUNS OF WWII, Colt shipped over 10,000 Oficial Police revolvers to the Army and DSC (Defense Supply Corporation) between 4/42 - 3/43 in the serial number range of 638,000 - 725,000. Page 157 of his book, shows a revolver similar to yours, a 6 inch Official Police, serial number 688695, which was shipped to Bethlehem Steel Co on 1/7/42. DSC orders mainly went to Defense plants. It was not uncommon for the plants to mark the revolvers with the initials and rack number. Possibly IBM was the recepient of your revolver and 44 was the rack number. By the way it would have served alongside a lot of S&W M&Ps acquired for the same purpose. Hope this helps
Dennis

 

[sunday bill]

j38, I agree with the Chevy/Ford comparison. Inside 20 yards I've been unable to best the slow-fire, single action accuracy of my 1940ish New Service in 45 Colt with any other 45 Colt or ACP chambered revolver or auto. A short-cylindered, Douglas-barrelled S&W Pre-Model 26 modified about in the manner Elmer shows on page 105 of his SIXGUNS comes closest of any of the handguns I've been lucky enough to own.

Unfortunately, the old Colt was without original grips when I acquired her. I had hoped it would be a Sunday afternoon plinker, fit for use in genteel company, as some of the old gun writers may have said, but that wasn't to be. This bellowing old gal refuses to approach her accuracy potential until the load surpasses 900 fps. and stacks like an overdrawn Osage bow when fired double action. In that mode, the 45 ACP S&W wins going away. The Official Police also exhibits the stacking tendency.

dhartz, that indeed helps. Thanks for the information from Mr. Pate's book. I had found mention on another forum of other OPs bearing similar butt markings and suspected mine fell into that category.

Rich

 

[fyimo]

I believe both Colt & S&W produced excellent handguns in the time frame mentioned and each has their own fan base and die hards just like the Ford to Chevy comparison mentioned earlier. I went with S&W revolvers because I can get them cheaper and they are still factory supported. That said, I still secretly lust for a 6 inch barreled Colt Python like the one my friend had as it is a work of art.

 

[Art Doc]

Colt bored the barrels a shade tighter and most times a Colt will shoot lead bullets slightly better than a comparable S&W. But of course individual results can vary from gun to gun and shooter to shooter. I have compared my S&Ws to my similar model Colts and about 70% of the time I shoot a tad better with the Colts.

The Official Police would be the closest model to compare to the Military & Police. It's actually just a hair larger in frame size but the Police Positive Special is a hair smaller.

I think most shooters favor the S&W stock shape.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I'm pretty sure that back when revolvers were still used in formal bullseye shooting, mainly Centerfire, Colts vastly outnumbered Smiths, and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't because of better triggers, although they could be made pretty good, too, especially in SA. There might be a couple of reasons why Colts were usually more accurate, but certainly individual samples vary, and the grips have to fit your hand if you want to shoot really well.

 

[bmcgilvray]

This thread gives me a good idea for a future test. I have a Colt Official Police that dates from 1954. It is an ex NYPD gun. I also have a Smith & Wesson Military & Police that also dates from 1954. It gives every appearance of a background in a lawman's holster. Both are somewhat worn but in great mechanical condition. Perhaps a side by side test would be fun.

The Official Police (top) shown with a WWII Colt Commando (bottom).

This Military & Police dates from the same time as the Official Police.

 

[sjmjax]

I've also done a few Colt vs SW tests.

I have about twice as many Smiths as Colts but like them both equally. I've always been a non-combatant in the Ford vs Chevy, 9mm vs .45, Colt vs S&W, Glock vs The World, Tastes great vs Less Filling wars.

Any way , here's the result of testing 3 inch barrelled model 36 and Detective Special at 7 yards, 4 inch barrelled model 10 and Metropolitan at 15, and 6 inch barrelled model 14 and Officer's Model Match also at 15 yards.

If I recall correctly, I was using 158 grain LSWC over 4.2 grains of 231 in all guns.

While the guns feel different in the hand with factory grips and trigger action also quite different, the results are remarkably similar. If I hadn't labeled the targets at the range, I'd had a hard time telling which went with which gun.

 

[sunday bill]

sjmjax, my groups with several 4" Model 10s are similar to the results from your 4" guns. I've had to switch to 125 gr. bullets and use a center hold with some guns and a six o'clock hold with others to get the bullets to impact in the 10 ring.

I've noticed others on this forum reporting good results when they used 158 gr. bullets in their 4" guns. My notes show at 15 yards they strike 4 to six inches high out of the 4" guns I've tested this summer but shoot to point of aim out of the 6" Colt OP and strike about two inches above p.o.a. out of my 6" Model 10-5.

The three Pre-10s whose serial #s reflect a b-date of 1946-1953 have all shot to point of aim and grouped tightly with a 125 gr. bullet travelling about 900 fps.

Obviously, YMMV,

Rich

 

[OIF2]

Colts are superb shooters with factory wadcutters. This one dates from the early war years.
Bob

 

[Doug.38PR]

nice grouping! What range is that from the target

 

[gaucho1]

"I have about twice as many Smiths as Colts but like them both equally. I've always been a non-combatant in the Ford vs Chevy, 9mm vs .45, Colt vs S&W, Glock vs The World, Tastes
great vs Less Filling wars."


Very well stated. I have about a one third-two third balance
favoring Smiths, but I appreciate both equally.

I am always a bit bewildered by people who feel sheepish
about acquiring or owning Colts on this best of all forum.

We are Gun Guys first and foremost.
We all know "More IS Better"

I really enjoy the comparisons.

 

[David LaPell]

One of the first real experiments I ever did.

The Gun Zone -- Police Revolvers

 

[bmcgilvray]

Hi David;

That is an eyecatching article and very good. I remember stumbling onto it a while back but didn't realize that you were its author.

 

[Muley Gil]

I have improved the DA pull on Colt revolvers by removing the grips and placing a round rod inbetween the leaves of the mainspring and then cocking the hammer. On a OP, a 3/16" drill bit works nicely.

 

[stantheman86]

I always thought the Police Positive was a nearly ideal size for a 4" .38 revolver. I have one but it seems Colt forgot to regulate the sights, it hits so far to the right and low it might as well not have sights. If I could find another 4" PP that shoots to POA I would use it as a CC piece.

Other than that, Colts don't shoot any better than S&W for me to notice. I am too set in my ways as a S&W guy to ever become a "Colt guy", although I wouldn't turn down another nice Police Positive or an Official Police.

All the stories of Colts going out of time after 10,000 rounds kinda scare me off too.......so whenever I think of picking up a Colt, I just buy another S&W

 

[Texas Star]

I always thought the Police Positive was a nearly ideal size for a 4" .38 revolver. I have one but it seems Colt forgot to regulate the sights, it hits so far to the right and low it might as well not have sights. If I could find another 4" PP that shoots to POA I would use it as a CC piece.

Other than that, Colts don't shoot any better than S&W for me to notice. I am too set in my ways as a S&W guy to ever become a "Colt guy", although I wouldn't turn down another nice Police Positive or an Official Police.

All the stories of Colts going out of time after 10,000 rounds kinda scare me off too.......so whenever I think of picking up a Colt, I just buy another S&W

If you have a Colt that is a pre-MK III that holds its timing to 10,000 rounds, you have an exceptional gun.

The cylinder timimg issue and the way that so few Colts shoot to the sights has put me off of them.

But I did own a very accurate .45 New Service made about 1935-36 that shot right alongside of a M-29 S&W. Usually, the S&W's shoot more to the sights and at least as tightly.

I once owned both a four-inch M-19 and a Colt Trooper .357 with the same barrel length. The Smith shot tighter groups. But the Colt was at least sighted well It did, of course, have adjustable sights that I dialed in for my eyes and hold. But a Diamondback had sights that didn't have enough range of adjustment to get the groups on the bullseye. A Colt spokeswoman told me to use Kentucky windage! I haven't bought a Colt since.

I like their .45 autos better and some of the current ones are very nice.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

For me, neither one is worth very much without a grip adapter. After that, I could discuss the advantages and disadvantages of each, but it has been done above. I like both, but only with a grip adapter.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

I think you will like your Colt, they shoot well, but for me being used to the S&W DA trigger they are a work in progress. I included a pic of my 1944 five inch Offical Police in 38 special and a pic of my 1921 four inch Police Positive in 38 special. I was so impressed with the PP's shooting that I got it with it's target. I own a Chevrolet and a Ford so am the same with my six guns, they are all good!