Model 27 loads

[Kaumheimer]

Was hoping the brain trust can help on this one. I have a model 27 that I sent to S&W about a year or so ago. New cylinder and 6” barrel. (Long story that I won’t retell but it used to have a 5” barrel).

I’m getting decent groups with factory ammo at 25 and so-so at 50. (I’d like to use this to whack a 12” plate at 100).

Prior to sending it in to Smith, the first incarnation of the gun, was a tack driver at up to 100 yards+, even with the 5” barrel. I used AA#7 and 2400 exclusively.

The “refurbished” gun is simply not as accurate, even with the longer barrel and a red dot. I tried using the same AA#7 load--10.7 gn with a 158 gn zero bullet and it was all over the map, off the bench). I don't recall the 2400 load I previously used but I'll give it a shot. 12.5-13. gr I believe.

So before I blame the factory, I want to try out some more loads and will start with AA#9 and 2400. I also have #5, #11, True Blue, Win 296 and H110 on hand. (No magnum primers for the H110).

Anybody have any luck with accuracy with any of the above with a 6" barrel?

Mahalo

 

[Eddietruett]

I like to use the Coated Lead Bullets from Missouri when shooting off a bench at 100 yards. The 158gr TCFP with 16.5gr H110 and the 180gr Pugnose with 13.5 H110 are both very accurate in several of my revolvers especially my 8 3/8” 686. With a red dot I have no problem ringing the 6” gong every time if I do my job. My favorite load these days at 100 yards is the same 158gr bullet with 5gr of Universal loaded in 38spl cases. Not a barn burner but just as accurate.

 

[cowboy4evr]

You changed the cylinder and the barrel , it sounds like your pistol , now is under sizing your bullets . I feel that your accuracy problem lies in the size of the cylinder throats , ( maybe undersize ) and possibly the usual " suspect " a tight spot where the barrel threads onto the frame . This happens when they are indexing the front sight to the rear sight . This is not uncommon with S&W revolvers . I cannot tell you how many I have found with this problem and I had to firelap the barrel to fix it . After meauring the cylinder throats , for proper size and enlarging if necessary and correcting the barrel problem they became tack drivers . It's not as complicated as it sounds to correct . A set of pin gauges would answer all these questions . Regards Paul

 

[Kaumheimer]

Paul, Thanks for your note. I get the feeling with this pistol that some of the cylinder throats "work" or are perhaps on spec, whereas others are not. Some shots will be dead on whereas others are flyers.

Obviously it could be my shooting but in this case, I don't think so. I can certainly measure the throats but "firelapping the barrel" is a bit beyond my paygrade!

I'm not much of a gunsmith and in Hawaii I don't think there's anyone I know of who's a revolver guy. There are a few 1911 guys (very few). I'm wondering if I need to send this to Smith if my load testing doesn't work out. At any rate, thanks again for your comments. Rob

 

[Forrest r]

You just need to start over & everything starts with the cylinder.

Get some soft lead slugs and push them thru each chamber of the cylinder and measure them Or get a wood dowel and chuck it in a drill and sand it down (take your time and check for fit often) until you have a tight fit with the dowel passing all the way thru each chamber in the cylinders. If you sand the dowel too much (loose fit) you can always put tape on it to tighten the fit up. All of them should be the same & now you have something to measure to see if the chambers in the cylinder are undersized.

Take one of your bullets and drop it into each chamber of the cylinder. Use a pencil/dowl (put a mark with a knife) or something to measure from the base of the bullet to the back of the cylinder. They all should be even.

The next thing I'd do is make up a dummy round seating the bullet long and testing to see if it will sit all the way down into the chambers of the cylinders. Seat and test all 6, seat a little deeper and test all 6, wash/rinse/repeat until you get the dummy round to fully sit down in the chambers.

Again you want all 6 chambers to seat with that max oal.

Now you can use that "max" oal for your reloads. A picture of a cut-a-way of a cylinder with 2 reloads in it. The top reload has the factory recommended oal/bullet seating depth. The bottom reload has the bullet seated long putting the bullet out into the leade of the chambers of the cylinder. Doing this aids in the bullets alignment increasing accuracy.

It very well could be something as simple as the new cylinder is cut with longer chambers/leade out further and you have a ton of freebore for the bullet to bounce around in before it gets aligned.

Anyway sounds like you need to do a little poking around to get the basics covered.

FWIW:
I've had a couple of the older 586's and they would pretty much shoot accurately within reason with any bullet style. I bought a nib 686 a couple years back and it's extremely finicky with TC and SWC bullets. FN and RN on the other hand flow like water in the newer l-frame.

Target looks like junk (it is) testing plinking loads in the 686 using bullseye powder (5.5gr & 6.0gr) and 3 different bullets (swc and 2x fn). All 3 bullets did 1 1/4" (6-shot groups) or less @ 25yds.

Stepped out to 50yds and the swc bullet fell apart. Both fn bullets using both the 5.5gr & 6.0gr loads 2 3/16" or less 6-shot groups.

Don't know if any of this will help but at least it's a place to start.

 

[cowboy4evr]

If you really are getting accuracy from some shots and flyers from others , try this . Take a roll of masking tape along the next time to the range . Put in just one round in the cylinder and place a small piece of masking tape on the outside of the cylinder , marking the location of the chambered round in the cylinder . If it shoots accurately , remove the tape and go to the next chamber . When you get a flyer , leave the tape marking that chamber . After firing all 6 rounds , go back and try the ones marked " flyers " to see if they consistently shoot flyers . This should help determine where the problem lies . Good luck , Regards Paul
BTW : Firelapping a barrel is easy . You just need to be a reloader to make the firelap rounds . You tube has video's , or send me your email address and I will walk you through how I do it .

 

[BrovoEchoSierra]

^^^^^^^^ what he just said.
It will amaze you how many guns will shoot consistent flyers from one or two holes.
Put up 6 targets, and mark your cylinder. Load 6 and shoot one at each target, taking care to shoot the same target with the same hole in the cylinder, when finished do this same thing over and over, until you have fired several rounds.
You will usually notice that there are some holes that shoot better than others do.
In retrospect, a 5 inch barrel is a really length, and if it shot well before...
Why change it? Not picking at you, just wondering?
Good luck, and I hope you can make it shoot to your satisfaction..

 

[skwchock]

aloha- I am from Honolulu, too, but now live in Virginia. With all the strict gun laws in Hawaii ... where do you shoot? How did you manage to get a gun? Mahalo nui loa...

 

[Kaumheimer]

Aloha Gentlemen, Thanks so much for your comments.

Wow, what an embarrassment of riches! Appreciate the time and effort to respond. I will look into firelapping a barrel.

A lot here to digest. I will follow up.

Re skwchock's comment, yes HI is not exactly the most firearm friendly place. I shoot at Kokohead Range, which is City run facility. So at least my tax dollars are going someplace where I can make use of them.

mahalo nui loa to you all!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Give a 158gr LSWC over 9.2gr HS-6 a try and see if that works for you. It's not a max load but accurate for me.

 

[ironhead7544]

Are you using a jacketed bullet or lead?

Lead may be a problem with the new barrels.

To check you barrel and cylinder diameters, get some lead slugs from Lead Bullet Technologies. These are easy to use and will fit on the end of a cleaning rod. No need to hammer them in. For the barrel, push the slug in the muzzle to the base with the small part sticking out. Mark the barrel and slug base so you can put it back in the same place. Take the slug out and measure the ring. Put it back in the barrel. Push it down with the cleaning rod and you will be able to feel any tight spots. It may be tight at the throat when it comes out. Measure the band again. If it is smaller, then you may have a tight spot at the barrel threads. You can fix this with barrel lapping. Use the slugs to check the chamber throats. They may not all be the same size. If not, you will have to ream them. Throat reamers can be rented and are not difficult to use.

 

[rogerwnuss]

May one ask, why change out the desireable 5" barrel?
And what was wrong with the cylinder?

 

[Kaumheimer]

A couple of folks are scratching their heads wondering why did that character swap out a cylinder and a 5" barrel on that 27. So I'll explain.

Shall we say I "overloaded" a round which evidently "expanded" one of the chambers in the cylinder. So I sent the gun to Smith for repair.

It was a shooter, but that nickel plated, 2nd hand pistol was deadly accurate. I purchased it years ago from a S&W Forum member. That 5" barrel was perfectly balanced. I loved it.

I asked Smith to replace the cylinder. Fine. Well I got a call back telling me that the barrel had to be replaced as well. Something about corrosion. I said ok. Did they have another 5" barrel? Of course not. They don't make them any more. They would replace it with a 6" barrel. Huh?

Suffice it to say, I got a very different pistol returned to me that doesn't shoot straight. Later a quite knowledgeable member of my gun club suggested that someone at Smith got a 5" barrel...

Perhaps.

Of course if this is the worst of my problems, I'm pretty lucky. In the meantime I appreciate you guys giving me these tips.

 

[series guy]

Two things that I would do before getting too carried away. First buy a box of factory jacketed ammo if you don’t already have some. Second get the best shooter you know at the club to shoot the gun. That will give you a base line of the gun’s accuracy. This has “solved” many problems at my club.

 

[cowboy4evr]

Veral smith , owner of LBT has not been working for over 4 months , eye problems . He's 80 yrs old . You can call him , the phone # listed on the website and ask if you can get some leg slugs . I would call customer service at S&W and tell them you want your 5" barrel returned . I would not accept their first response of " we can't do that as we have too many barrels in the junk box " . It would be on or near the top of the pile so call back , get a different CS person . You will eventually get your other barrel back . Regards Paul

 

[Kaumheimer]

I'm not the best shooter in the club but here's 12 rounds of factory ammo @ 25 yards with the red dot. I think if the gun was in better working order, the group would be a lot tighter.