Model 30-1 Kit Gun Target UPDATE

[Hondo44]

12/10/11 Update:
As indicated below, the front sight needed on this .32 is huge as are the 22/32 Kit Guns. I finally milled and installed a factory style base charcteristic of the Mod 63 .22/32 or post war larger frame target models and I'm happy with the new look.

When I first decided it would be nice to have a .32 target companion to my Model of 1953 22/32 Kit Gun, I was disappointed to find that there were only 196 made after the war in 1957. And eventually discovered it was not a match to my Pre Mod & Mod 34 22/32 Kit Guns but rather a transitional Regulation Police Target. I found three total and bought one of them and I like it. But it's more of a collectible and I don't have a transitional 22/32 Kit Gun as a companion to it.

So I finally concluded I’d have to make one or have one made but I couldn’t bring myself to modify an original gun. I'd heard of one or two customs here on this forum. So I decided to find one that someone else had paid to have made.

Well, one finally followed me home. A 30-1 early J frame with original round butt diamond grips numbered to the gun. With the 1/8" front sight blade my old eyes can shoot it much better than my other fixed sight .32s. It groups extremely well but high. These photos show my modifications made to improve the sights installation for proper elevation adjustment. The rear sight step cut over the Hammer wasn't milled properly low enough. I filed, polished and blued the step cut to the correct depth for full elevation adjustment. Then I improved the front blade shape to a factory profile and properly serrated the ramp at 40 LPI. I've added factory target grips that I always shorten and in this case, adapted with a filler to the round butt 30-1.

One clear giveaway that this 30-1 (top) is not a factory gun is the non-grooved barrel rib. Also a shorter, Mod 1953 I frame rear sight was used instead of the 1st style J frame but installed slightly more forward then on the J frame 22/32s to get the end of the tang to the end of the frame contour. It doesn’t extend all the way to the barrel rib (same as the 1st style J frame sight with shorter tang length used on pinned barreled Mod 34-1s.) This put the front mounting screw over the barrel throat like the factory placement to avoid flash cutting at the screw hole (not that it's an issue in .32 cal!) But my 34-2, shown below it, is a non-pinned barrel which has a different frame contour at the front and uses the 2nd type J frame sight tang which is longer and extends all the way to the barrel rib.

To match my Mod 34 I added the .400” target trigger and Case Colored J frame centerfire target hammer. Also added pre war style thumbpieces just for panache as is my practice on guns that aren't original or collectible.

There you have it, a pair of J frame targets, similar to the Masterpiece series offered by Smith long ago. Incidentally, these two guns are candidates for front sight blade ramped bases as provided by Smith on Mod 35s and 63s. In my opinion the tall blade looks better with a ramped base than the huge "sail" front sight on blue .22/32 Kit Guns, and especially with the height needed on the .32. More on that progress in a future post.

The final phase of this project is the 3rd gun, a 38 Special J frame Target. Original Model 36 and Model 50 Targets have only 2" or 3" barrels and are too sacred to modify. Guess I'll have to make it from a non-collectible condition Mod 36 and use a 38 S&W 4" barrel or from a Mod 33-1 with a 38 Spl cylinder.......

 

[BUFF]

Nice! It is another gun that S&W should have made but didn't.

 

[hatchet jack]

Hondo I like your 32. I have a model 31-1 that I have tried to have adjustable sights added to along with a taller front sight and cannot find anyone to do the work. I called S&W s custom shop and was told they were not interested. I called every GS I could find including the big one Hamilton Bowen and still no one wanted the job.

Someday I will find a smith that can do the job and will have it done. I love shooting the 32 long round. What a neat little round.

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo I like your 32. I have a model 31-1 that I have tried to have adjustable sights added to along with a taller front sight and cannot find anyone to do the work. I called S&W s custom shop and was told they were not interested. I called every GS I could find including the big one Hamilton Bowen and still no one wanted the job.

Someday I will find a smith that can do the job and will have it done. I love shooting the 32 long round. What a neat little round.

hatchet jack,
Thank you. I'm surprised no one will do it. It used to be that putting S&W target sights on any gun was one of the most common modifications. Have you tried Clements, Gallgher or David Chicoine?

If and when you find one to do it be sure to have them use the 1st style J frame rear sight which is exactly 2 1/2" overall length and the rear sight blade notch is the proper width for an 1/8" front blade. Also have them mill a slot for the 1/8" wide higher front sight and pin it in, not solder it, so you don't have to reblue the barrel. And 40 lines per inch is the correct serrations for the front blade.

 

[DGNY]

Kirt Gun Target .32 Cal

Creativity and craftsmanship in service to a vision. Bravo!

Would hope that someday S&W might develop a modular approach with their fancy "new" CAD/CAM capacity to create small runs of such gems.

Regards and thanks for sharing pictures and the details,

Dyson

 

[Speedo2]

Seems to me, if I'm recalling it correctly, that David Carrol had a M36 with a 4" bbl and target sights at one of the Lexington shows a couple of years ago. He described it as something special that was made in the factory under somewhat dubious authorization (again, if I'm recalling it correctly) and that somebody got in trouble for making it. Nonetheless, t was a great looking gun, but kind of pricey. I think that there is out there somewhere, already existing, the 3rd gun for your kit-gun trifecta. Perhaps if Mr.Carrol is around, he could weigh-in and correct my memory where it has strayed? -S2

 

[cgt4570]

Who milled the frame for the rear sight? I've looked into I or J frame kit gun projects, too.
For your .38 Special you have in mind, you might consider using one of the 5" Model 60 barrels. If you use a Model 32 .38 S&W barrel, it will be oversized (.360 vs .357). While it will probably shoot just fine, I doubt it will be target accurate, negating the gains of the target rear sight.
Here's my .32 Kit gun. It's original and lettered as shipped with the target sights. It's the only one I've ever heard of. It's a 1903 no change first year 4".

 

[hatchet jack]

Hondo thanks for the info. If you have any phone numbers or links they would be appreciated.

I have an article in an old Guns & Ammo annual written by Terry Murbach describing just what you suggested and doing the grooved and pinned front sight. I have wanted a gun like that for 20 years. I worked all my young life in my dads machine shop and wish he was still alive and I would do the work myself. I am lucky enough to exchange emails with Terry Murbach and he said the fellow that did his is out of business (IIRC).

Here is a gun that I just won off GB that is a close second to what I want. S&W Model 36-6 Target .38 Special 3" Adj Sights : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

I used to read all the old gun mags and the idea of a "Trail Gun" has stuck with me for many years. I like the idea of a small, handy, lightweight gun you have on your belt and forget its there till needed. I sure miss the old gun stories. Now everything is about self defense and shooting another person.

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo thanks for the info. If you have any phone numbers or links they would be appreciated.

Here is a gun that I just won off GB that is a close secound to what I want. S&W Model 36-6 Target .38 Special 3" Adj Sights : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

hatchet jack,
Congrats, that's an unbelievable price for a like new 36-6 that SCSW reports only 615 were made! I have one I bought new and one of the 1990 SS versions. They are both great shooters and very comfortable to shoot with mild 38 Spls or 38 Long Colt when teaching the wife to shoot.

Here's some links:
prices
Clements Custom Guns
Gallagher Firearms: Services: -

 

[Hondo44]

Who milled the frame for the rear sight? I've looked into I or J frame kit gun projects, too.
For your .38 Special you have in mind, you might consider using one of the 5" Model 60 barrels. If you use a Model 32 .38 S&W barrel, it will be oversized (.360 vs .357). While it will probably shoot just fine, I doubt it will be target accurate, negating the gains of the target rear sight.
Here's my .32 Kit gun. It's original and lettered as shipped with the target sights. It's the only one I've ever heard of. It's a 1903 no change first year 4".

Hi Chris,
I bought the gun with the sights mounted on Gunsamerica, It came from a GS in Washington State so I don't know who milled it. But I'll do the .38 myself. My son has a milling machine.

You're definitely correct about the .38 S&W bore. I cast my bullets and reload so I could use oversize bullets in 38 Spl if the accuracy is an issue which it probably will be. I have a 38 Spl cylinder and the chamber mouths are .357 which would have to be reamed to .360. The chambers are .380 which should give me enough room to seat .360 bullets in 38 Spl cases.
However your idea of using the 5" barrel is a much better solution. I can shorten it to 4" and have it blued. I know of a few refinishers that specialize in bluing stainless steel. Then I could use any standard 38 Spl ammo! Heck I might just leave it 38 S&W. It's a fine target cartridge and readily available. The options are fun to contemplate.

That's a classic little 32 Kit Gun! I have an old Bekeart (22/32 Heavy Frame Target) that had a bulged barrel that I replaced with a 4" kit gun Barrel that is a perfect companion to yours!

Thank you!

 

[hatchet jack]

Hondo thanks for the links. I have read through them and as soon as my gunfund recovers from my latest purchase I will do some calling and see about having the sights put on my gun.

I hope the price I paid for the 36-6 was a fair one. The above mentioned Terry Murbach also wrote an article on the 38 special and mentioned that he had J frame sights put on a 3" model 36 and made a slick little trail gun out of it. See, its those type of articles that have me on the scout for a new trail gun all the time. I used to have a lot more time for trail walking and camping than I do now but I hope I can move before long to an area where I have a lot better places to get back in the woods.

I am always looking for S&W 32 long revolvers. I love shooting the little 32 round. I have a 2" & 3" model 30s, the 4" model 31 and two Ruger single sixes with 5.5" barrels and adjustable sights both in 32 mag. Plus a 431PD that stays in my nightstand. Anything 32 gets me going. My dad was the same way. Oh, and I have a Munhurin PP in 32 acp. My holy grail of guns is a mode 631 32 mag. I check GB and auction arms about once a week for a chance at one. The last one I saw was $800 IIRC. I think I should have bought it.

Like I said 32s just "do it" for me.

 

[hatchet jack]

Hondo thanks for the heads up on the 631. I am buying it. You don't know it but you are my new Best Friend. This means I have just spent $1125.00 on guns today. Oh well, you can't take it with you when you go. (Thats why I'm not going).

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo thanks for the heads up on the 631. I am buying it. You don't know it but you are my new Best Friend. This means I have just spent $1145.00 on guns today. Oh well, you can't take it with you when you go. (Thats why I'm not going).

My friends all say I can spend their money faster than they can. I like your attitude about not going!!

 

[Hondo44]

I hope the price I paid for the 36-6 was a fair one. The above mentioned Terry Murbach also wrote an article on the 38 special and mentioned that he had J frame sights put on a 3" model 36 and made a slick little trail gun out of it. See, its those type of articles that have me on the scout for a new trail gun all the time. I used to have a lot more time for trail walking and camping than I do now but I hope I can move before long to an area where I have a lot better places to get back in the woods.

I am always looking for S&W 32 long revolvers. I love shooting the little 32 round. I have a 2" & 3" model 30s, the 4" model 31 and two Ruger single sixes with 5.5" barrels and adjustable sights both in 32 mag. Plus a 431PD that stays in my nightstand. Anything 32 gets me going/ My dad was the same way. Oh, and I have a Munhurin PP in 32 acp. My holy grail of guns is a mode 631 32 mag. I check GB and auction arms about once a week for a chance at one. The last one I saw was $800 IIRC. I think I should have bought it. Like I said 32s just "do it" for me.

Yeah me too. I have mostly post war and pre number .32s. Besides the new target 30-1 I started this thread with I have the following: 1st on the left was my grandfather's from 1913, the five I frame variations from the 50's and the last on the right a non-pinned 31-1, the only J frame besides the new one.

Here's my latest Ruger Kit Gun: barrel was cut to 3 1/2" to make this shorty. Turned an additional 90 degrees, the barrel rollmark is now on the left side so it wasn't covered by the front sight. A super ss NM sight has been modified by lowering it to shoot to point of aim after dialing it in at the range. Overall it's only 8 1/2" long. It's no safe queen but rescued with a bad barrel to be used and enjoyed.

A USFA cammed slot ERH was fitted to allow for sufficient ejection rod travel to eject cases, especially 22 mags and WRFs. It also allows removal of the cylinder pin for cylinder changes in the field w/o removal of the ERH. A dimpled ER was shortened and pointed (to more easily find those 22 chambers.)

The grip frame is a steel short one from the New Model .32 Mag single six "Vaqueroette" for proportion with the barrel and easy packin'. The wide SBH trigger fills the wide hole in the NM grip frame. The new grip medallions were exchanged for the Old Model blackhawk style.

This adapter was made to adapt the grip frame for the original trigger return spring.

 

[hatchet jack]

Hondo I like your collection. How do you tell an I frame from a J frame? I have a model 34-1 that is a flat latch that I bought from a pawn shop for $250 OTD and it may be an I frame gun. It didn't have the original grips and I put a Houge rubber grip (I hope thats not a sin here) on it so the SN is covered up. I can take the grip off if that would help and get the SN.

I really like the Ruger and what you have done to it. I have one of the old 3 screws like that that was my grandads made in 1961. He had the new lockwork put in and I have the old lock work to go with it. I have never seen a cammed ejector rod. Thats a cool idea!

I am thinking that joining here may have been a bad idea. This place is going to cost me lots of money.

 

[Hondo44]

Hondo I like your collection. How do you tell an I frame from a J frame? I have a model 34-1 that is a flat latch that I bought from a pawn shop for $250 OTD and it may be an I frame gun. It didn't have the original grips and I put a Houge rubber grip (I hope thats not a sin here) on it so the SN is covered up. I can take the grip off if that would help and get the SN.

If it's a 34-1 it's a J frame. The -1 indicates the engineering change from I frames to J frames in 1960. The flat latch indicates it was made between 1960 and 1966 and it had the diamond grips. All of the rounder trigger guard guns are I frames (except the early Baby J frame 38 Special Chief's Specials).
The easiest way to tell if a Model of 1953, which has the larger egg shaped trigger guard and longer grip, is an I or J frame regardless of caliber is to look at the frame length in front of the trigger guard. If you look at my photo, the 2nd down on the right is the shorter I frame. The bottom on the right is the longer J frame.

 

[hatchet jack]

Okay gotcha. I will know an I frame from now on. I never caught that. I do not own any I frames.

Who did the work on your ruger? I have kicked around the idea of getting a bearcat but your old 3 screw blows a bearcat out of the water for looks. My buddy has a new model single six that is a little beat up. I may have to work on him and see if he will sell it. He wants a stainless single six.

Did you have to redrill the hole for the ejector rod housing? And where did you get it? Sorry to be so nosey but I really liked that pistola.

 

[Hondo44]

Okay gotcha. I will know an I frame from now on. I never caught that. I do not own any I frames.

Who did the work on your ruger? I have kicked around the idea of getting a bearcat but your old 3 screw blows a bearcat out of the water for looks. My buddy has a new model single six that is a little beat up. I may have to work on him and see if he will sell it. He wants a stainless single six.

Did you have to redrill the hole for the ejector rod housing? And where did you get it? Sorry to be so nosey but I really liked that pistola.

I do all my own work, that's the fun part of it. Yes, I had to redrill and tap the ejector rod housing attachment hole as well as the front sight hole. The original barrel had a blade front sight.

The housing is a US Firearms part from their 3 1/2" Colt clone Sheriff Model. USFA's single actions are as good or better than 3rd generation Colts. I own both but often use USFA's barrels and cylinders when doing caliber conversions on Colts.

 

[hatchet jack]

Jim I suspected you were doing your own work. You do very good work too. Like I said earlier I have an old 3 screw but I can't cut up granpas old gun. But then again my granpa might just like what you have done.

My granfather was an old GS from the mid 50s to about the mid 70s. I am lucky enough to own a couple of rifles he built on 98 actions. I have a 7x57 with a G33/40 action and either a Douglas or P.O. Ackley barrel. I knew my GP was into guns when I was growing up but I had no idea just how much into guns he was.

When my dad died my mother gave me a folder of letters that came from my GPs estate. In that packet were letters from P.O. Ackley and Phil Sharpe. My GF was doing load developement with Phil Sharpe on the 7MM Sharpe & Hart and talking back and forth about the Norma brass splitting after one or two loadings. Occording to my uncle my GF bought PO Ackley barrels by the arm load. My dad blued the completed actions when the guns were built. We had barreled actions all over the house when I was a little kid.

I wish my grandfather was still hear. I think he and I could be very good friends. I did not appreciate him for what he was and what he knew.

 

[hatchet jack]

I forgot to mention that after looking at your old model ruger I do not think a new ruger SS would have the same style. Its just hard to beat that slick drift adjustable rear sight.