Model 52-2 questions

[Ed Fowler]

Thanks for the explanation, now I understand.

 

[TTSH]

The only quirk is with the ammo. You have to hand load and it may require a bit of tweaking to get the load right for you. Most critical is having a flush seated bullet and a powder charge that works. I find a single station press works best however it can be time consuming. To me, that's the only way I can get consistent loads that work well.

An opportunity has come up locally to purchase a Model 52-2 at a semi-reasonable price (albeit one that would require that I immediately sell at least 2 other guns in addition to the usual thing of selling my old, watered-down blood!).

My father (R.I.P.) was a big competitive club shooter back in the day and left me a ton of .38 Spl wadcutter reloads... so the opportunity to use them up in a target pistol was initially a very interesting plus to me. However, the good wife reminded me last night that dear old dad had a tendency to supercharge those wadcutters to an almost extreme degree given that he competed with an N-frame revolver. So now, maybe those .38 Spl wadcutter reloads are useless to me unless I use them in a similarly sturdy .357 Magnum revolver.

Or are they?

And so I am here to ask the Model 52-2 ammo experts: What would you do in a situation like this? Does the Model 52-2 tend to like hot loads? Or can it at least tolerate them? Or, on the other hand, am I likely to damage the gun using dad's old supercharged reloads?

One thing I've thought about is bringing the ammo and a sturdy .357 Magnum revolver to a range with a chronograph and finding out just how "hot" dear old dad loaded them.

Does that idea make sense? Or would I be wasting my time and money for nothing? That Model 52-2 is not my usual thing and only makes economic sense if I can use up all that old ammo I've got. I don't plan to get back into reloading myself, so after dad's ammo is gone I'll have to go to new ammo or commercial reloads.

Help me out here guys. What do you think I should do?

 

[Ed Fowler]

If he was a serious competitive shooter his ammo will be stored in lots.
I would shoot a representative sample of shells from one bag or box in a revolver that can take hot loads and go from there. No competitive shooter mixes his loads on purpose. I personally would shoot them all and enjoy the voyage.

 

[Sevens]

If he was loading some kind of a cast, solid, double-ended wadcutter -- then loading them "hot" could result in ammo that wants to lead up a barrel. Not ideal, but more of a cumulative problem that can be assessed along the way.

However, if he were loading -THE- true target bullet of the day, the soft swaged lead hollow-base wadcutter... then loading them "hot" is a horrific train-wreck bad kind of idea. It's almost common knowledge to fanciers of the hollow-base wadcutter that a HOT load can/will result in the core middle of the bullet being blown THROUGH the barrel, leaving a full diameter ring of lead bullet stuck in the bore. Results of firing another round behind it could be a myriad of bad, including catastrophe.

If your Dad was a serious competitor AND he was skilled at shooting and handloading... frankly, I would suggest that it makes no good sense that he built over-hot wadcutter loads.

There is ZERO to be gained for target use in speeding up a bullet wholly designed for pure accuracy. Besides all the potential problems this can introduce -- the first two things it does is degrade accuracy AND degrade's most folks ability to shoot accurately.

All else being equal...
I would have to guess the loads are GOOD and not loaded hot.

 

[Sevens]

Oops, sorry--
To finish and answer the question...

If the loads are hot and far beyond the normal target load then yes, it's a terrible idea to pound them through a Model 52-2. While the pistol is an extremely well built steel-framed beauty, it simply was NOT at all designed for anything hot. I would never expect a 52 to rupture (there's plenty of good old steel where it matters...) it would be very hard on all the small parts and this is NOT something you could even hope to address with increases spring weights.

Even still, if the opportunity you see is at or lower some of the prices we've recently talked about for 52's... I say you sell two guns to get it and then sell another to cover ammo.

If you simply pick up, handle, and dry fire a 52 -- you will "get it" and you will see where we are coming from.

 

[elpac3]

get a bullet puller, take a couple of the wad cutters apart and see how they are built - then make a decision as to which gun to shoot them in.

 

[TTSH]

Thanks for the input guys. I sincerely appreciate it.

I do have his reloading records... somewhere... but I don't see any obvious markings on the boxes to indicate a particular batch or lot number. So I think the safest plan is to test fire at least 2 or 3 rounds from each box until I can determine what's what. I also have a bullet puller somewhere in my old mothballed reloading equipment but it may take me a while to put my hands on it. I can weigh the powder (the scale still sits on my desk!) but I'll just have to hope for now that his records can tell me what powder and how much of it he intended to use.

I don't recall him ever complaining about the performance of his reloads... not that he would have necessarily shared that information with me at the time. But when he finally did quit competitive shooting and turned over all his target ammo to me, there was no special warning about it. However, when I tried to use it in my Model 49, the kick was crazy and the spent shells would not extract. It was then that he acknowledged that they might be just a little bit on the hot side. I would classify them as "almost" a weak .357 Magnum. God only knows what he was thinking but they didn't seem to negatively impact his performance.

After that, I figured I'd only use them in an N-frame .357 Magnum revolver. But I'm not a big revolver shooting guy and most of the ammo he gave me has just been stored all these many years. Anyway, it was a non-issue until yesterday when I found that A800-series Model 52-2 for sale.

I'm not going to get into what I think I can buy it for except to say that the usability or non-usability of dear old dad's ammo does make or break any potential deal. I still owe a small fortune from last year and if, by the grace of God, I manage to buy this gun, it has got to be able to use the ammo I own or I'm going to be one very hurtin' dirt poor old dude.

 

[824tsv]

I have read many times the malady's suffered by people shooting someone else's reloads. Your father in law included. Any Model 52 is an expensive proposition to take a chance with unknown ammunition. My 2 cents.

 

[TTSH]

I have read many times the malady's suffered by people shooting someone else's reloads. Your father in law included. Any Model 52 is an expensive proposition to take a chance with unknown ammunition. My 2 cents.

That was my dad (not my F-I-L) but your point is perfectly valid. It is not an ideal situation by a long shot. It might be enough reason to just blow this costly gun off and go back to Plan A (i.e., paying down debt for the next 2 months then resuming the search for 3rd Gens that Dparker and the Kaveman decided to leave for others!).

 

[Sevens]

Lemme see if I can say this respectfully & light-heartedly: nobody on these pages cries half as much about their budget and limited funding of gun buys as you do. Again, light-hearted, maybe that just makes it easier for you to cope (discussing it!) but it often seems like a quiet cry for help.

Not a "send money" help, more of a "guys -- what should I do?!" kind of help.

So here I am to help!
I can help you to select which guns to sell off. If that idea makrs you shudder... consider staying out of all these great places that you keep finding your next "gotta have."

To close this... I do hope you take this in the spirit that I offer it. Guns like 5906's are terrific for every single one of the reasons we all know and love. But if you have a bunch of lovable high production combat type 3rd Gens... seriously consider forwarding them onward to fund a 52. You may be staring down a grail gun without fully realizing it.

 

[TTSH]

Lemme see if I can say this respectfully & light-heartedly: nobody on these pages cries half as much about their budget and limited funding of gun buys as you do. Again, light-hearted, maybe that just makes it easier for you to cope (discussing it!) but it often seems like a quiet cry for help.

Not a "send money" help, more of a "guys -- what should I do?!" kind of help.

So here I am to help!
I can help you to select which guns to sell off. If that idea makrs you shudder... consider staying out of all these great places that you keep finding your next "gotta have."

To close this... I do hope you take this in the spirit that I offer it. Guns like 5906's are terrific for every single one of the reasons we all know and love. But if you have a bunch of lovable high production combat type 3rd Gens... seriously consider forwarding them onward to fund a 52. You may be staring down a grail gun without fully realizing it.

It was actually kind of funny (or maybe more like pathetic?) how and why I came across that Model 52-2 the other day. I wasn't exactly out active gun shopping. Hardly!!! But that's another long story for some other time. I *did* stumble upon it and it was the first one I ever got to hold and dry fire. It was pretty impressive in a weird, historical, obsolete sort of way.

Anyway, I thought about it all last night (I couldn't sleep) and I've decided to blow it off. You guys are right about the risk of using dear old dad's crazy hot reloads and you are also right about the money thing. I had a terrific 2015 acquisition-wise but it's time to pay the piper for the unplanned excesses of last year before resuming the search for even more S&W goodness.

While interesting as heck, I don't consider the Model 52-2 as my ultimate grail gun. Moreover, I've decided that what I'd have to give up is more important to me than what I'd be gaining. It was tough (and disappointing) to come to that realization, but it's true.

Another thing bothered me. The most I could ever hope to pay for that Model 52-2 is less than what I feel it is worth. It's a consignment gun that was owned by the current owner's father who died. The son is selling off two guns (including this one) from the estate. He deserves to get full value for his dad's guns... and I can't pay full value.

 

[Leon Narozny]

TTSH....You need to pay what that gun is worth as everyday fewer and
fewer are on the market. Guys dont just pull prices out of the air.its most
likely an appraisal value, and why would he sell for less? The 52 is more
of a piece of firearm history, as it is a very unique pistol, one of a kind.
I guess to put it another way, a lot of my buddies think its INSANE to pay
what people are asking for Model 52 magazines, and I tell them, I shoved 5 rounds in a $100.00 bill, but that didnt work. Unless the price is
ridiculous, pay it and enjoy the gun, you willnever lose money on it.

 

[DocB]

I guess I could post this one I got 2 weeks ago. I've already posted it too many times. Mr. Jinks indicated that it shipped in June of 1968. It's a 52-2 and likely the 1st one ever shipped by S&W. A real solid investment. That's for sure.

 

[TTSH]

TTSH....You need to pay what that gun is worth as everyday fewer and fewer are on the market. Guys don't just pull prices out of the air. Its most likely an appraisal value, and why would he sell for less? The 52 is more of a piece of firearm history, as it is a very unique pistol, one of a kind.

I guess to put it another way, a lot of my buddies think it's INSANE to pay what people are asking for Model 52 magazines, and I tell them, I shoved 5 rounds in a $100.00 bill, but that didn't work. Unless the price is ridiculous, pay it and enjoy the gun, you will never lose money on it.

I'm not questioning the appropriateness of the tagged price. It's not ridiculous and I know exactly how it got there. I hope the shop gets the full asking price for it and the owner gets what he agreed to take for it per the consignment agreement.

You are actually making my case for me that I shouldn't buy it because I can't pay the full asking price. It's not only the fact that I don't have that much money or credit card space available to use at the moment. It's also the two other factors: 1) I genuinely want to see the owner get what the gun is worth (less agreed commission)... and, 2) As great as it would be to own the gun, an amazing piece of S&W history IMHO, it doesn't fit at all into my 2016 plans nor does it fit with the agreement I have with the wife about what can and can't go into the collection/accumulation.

Without the safe usability of dear old dad's reloaded ammo (over $500 worth), the idea of buying this gun is economically "deader than a doornail"! It's the only way I could ever hope to justify the necessary financial gymnastics necessary to make an offer on the gun that wouldn't be laughed at.

 

[Leon Narozny]

TTSH....We all have parameters we live within. I respect your discipline
and hope sometime in the future a 52 will be available to you.
All situations are different and must be respected as such.
Thanks for your reply.

 

[smoky38]

Good thread, Just picked up my 1st 52-2 with 1 extra mag. Had no idea that they exhisted till I spied it at my friends gun shop. I thought they had made a mistake on the info tag. After a day or 2 of research and actually finding another one at the local gun show for $950.00 , gun and 1 mag only and showing some holster wear, I decided to buy from my friend as this gun looks as tho it has never been fired. Went to pick it up and damn if he did not have another one. 3 model 52s in one town in 3 days. Amazing. The other one is still available if anyone is interested. $1200.00 I think with box and 1 mag. Looks perfect.
Came here looking for load data so thanks for that. Can't wait to shoot the gun.

 

[824tsv]

My go to load for my Model 52-2 is:
3.0g of Winchester W231 under a 148g HBWC. Bullet seated just a hair below the rim with a moderate crimp. Evey time I pull the trigger on my 52-2 it brings a smile to my face.