Model 52 Reloading Question

[PeterM]

I've seen, in this and other groups, mention of using unsized .38 brass for reloading for the Model 52. Could someone tell me why this is a good idea?

 

[Ignatz]

I've honestly never heard that one. I do know that the chamber in my 52 barrel is not as tight as my K frame revolvers. I had some 148 HBWC's years ago that for some reason afer reloading had a slight bulge near the base of the case. Some were impossible to load in a revolver, but I could fire them with no problems in my 52 so I could get the brass back. I stopped using those RCBS dies...switched to Dillon and haven't had that issue again. So, now that you brought this up, I could see that maybe my 52 could use an unsized fired case from a revolver, but...I reload for a fleet, not just my 52 so I'll resize my cases.

 

[TSQUARED]

I always size my brass ans specifically use the R-P wadcutter brass which can be identified by the two circular rings about 1/4 inch apart. I find the Remington LHBWC seats more unifromly in this brass.

 

[505Gibbs]

I'll go along with the use of sizing as well - never heard of not sizing esp. for an auto.
It'll be interesting to see what others chime in with.

 

[sar4937]

TSQUARED, are the circular grooves at the headstamp, or on the sides of the brass? Where are you buying this brass? And by sizing, are you refering to a sizing die?

 

[DCC]

I've honestly never heard that one. I do know that the chamber in my 52 barrel is not as tight as my K frame revolvers. I had some 148 HBWC's years ago that for some reason afer reloading had a slight bulge near the base of the case. Some were impossible to load in a revolver, but I could fire them with no problems in my 52 so I could get the brass back. I stopped using those RCBS dies...switched to Dillon and haven't had that issue again. So, now that you brought this up, I could see that maybe my 52 could use an unsized fired case from a revolver, but...I reload for a fleet, not just my 52 so I'll resize my cases.

I have a Model 52 which is suberbly accurate but has given problems coming to battery ONLY when I use 38 Spl+P brass with 148gr HBWC i.e. case bulges - but is OK with 38Spl brass.
I use standard red/round box Lee dies - maybe I should invest in some real tight tolerence dies?

And due to the stupid laws we have in the UK (where I live) I also shoot a 38 cal Taurus LBR
which has chambers so tight that I have to put most home-loads back thru the sizing die after seating if I want them chamber off a speed loader.
ditto the 45ACP Taurus LBR using thinned down S&W full moon-clips - but that's another story...

TSQUARE - I've never seen ~ R-P wadcutter brass which can be identified by the two circular rings about 1/4 inch apart. I find the Remington LHBWC* seats more unifromly in this brass.
* is that the graphite lubed HBWC? looks "dirty" but isn't?

Keep up the good work Forum....
and I'll keep shooting my 52 along with my Fosbery until I run out of Federal primers

ATB DCC

 

[Jim Watson]

What do you do to a Model 52 to legitimise it in the UK? Keep it on the Isle of Man?

 

[rburg]

Some interesting things touched on here. Yes, if you ever buy a factory wadcutter load, you'll see the extra crimp used. I've never sorted by that, or paid any real attention to it, except to notice it exists.

Back to the M52 question, my old gun wouldn't cycle reliably with the 2.7 grain loads of Bullseye most recommended. So I upped it to 3.0 and it worked fine in the 52 and all my revolvers. It was easier to settle upon a load that worked well in all guns.

 

[Jeff423]

I've found that my 52 works well with whatever brass I salvage from the range. I tumble it, use 2.8 gr. Bullseye and any of a variety of 148 gr. wadcutters. It's shot Speer and Hornady swaged bullets, DEWC's and my own cast bullets. The last stage in my press is the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. I use it to form a slight roll crimp and to "iron out" any bulges from the cast bullets.

Jeff

 

[Jeff423]

"I have a Model 52 which is suberbly accurate but has given problems coming to battery ONLY when I use 38 Spl+P brass with 148gr HBWC i.e. case bulges - but is OK with 38Spl brass. I use standard red/round box Lee dies - maybe I should invest in some real tight tolerence dies? And due to the stupid laws we have in the UK (where I live) I also shoot a 38 cal Taurus LBR which has chambers so tight that I have to put most home-loads back thru the sizing die after seating if I want them chamber off a speed loader. ditto the 45ACP Taurus LBR using thinned down S&W full moon-clips - but that's another story..."



Have you tried the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die?

I think it might solve the problems you describe.

Jeff

 

[Dale53]

I am SOLD on the Lee Factory Crimp dies for just those reasons. I have them for .32's, .38's, 44's, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt.

Dale53

 

[DCC]

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
What do you do to a Model 52 to legitimise it in the UK? Keep it on the Isle of Man?

I keep my Model 52, along with my other "Heritage Pistols", at the NRA(UK) HQ Armoury at Bisley - have "visitation rights" once or twice a month and meet up with all the other like minded UK pistol shooters, some travel down from Scotland, to exercise their Broomhandles, Fosberys and, of course, Smith & Wessons.

DCC

 

[Dale53]

DCC;
I didn't read your post carefully enough. Your problem with +P brass and wadcutters is understandable. +P brass tapers (inside) towards the bottom because of the higher pressures expected. The wadcutters seat deep in the case and are running into the taper.

The Lee factory crimp die will solve this but the rounds may not be as accurate as "normal" cases as the bullet will be somewhat sized inside the case. However, the only sure thing is try it and see. That is one of the beauties of a HBWC, the base may expand as it is shot and seal the bore.

Of course, the best solution is to not use +P cases when shooting HBWC's...

Dale53

 

[DCC]

Dale53 ~ TY ~
+1 ~ Yup - sorted out the +Ps...for use in my Marlin which has a very "loose" chamber but then I'd don't use HBWC in it anyway...

DCC

 

[wheelgun28]

Ive been following this thread. I loaded some speer 148 HBWC with 2.9G of Bullseye. I will let the picture do the talking

I only made a few to test them, cant wait to load and shoot more. The 52 is by far my favorite gun...Thank you for the help!!

 

[Dale53]

I no longer have my Model 52 S&W but sold it to a friend. It shot like a house afire and Ron Benge, our club champion, handles it better than well.

I cast and loaded dbl ended wadcutters for it and it was a REAL performer. It would average under 3/4" at 25 yards and I shot many groups with it off the Ransom Rest that nudged 1/2" (the best commercial wadcutter ammunition was always a tick better than my own - even tho' mine was very good). In those days, when NRA Bullseye was the "BIG BOY'S" sport of choice, the commercial stuff was VERY, VERY good. I have heard since that is no longer true. I can't really say as I only shoot reloads.

I think Ron has mostly shot commercial HBWC bullets in it since he took possession. His reloads but uses commercial swaged bullets. When I was shooting Bullseye, Remington's bulk commercial HBWC's were pretty much the best out there but Star bullets were a very close second.

Dale53

 

[DCC]

Originally posted by rburg:
Some interesting things touched on here. Yes, if you ever buy a factory wadcutter load, you'll see the extra crimp used. I've never sorted by that, or paid any real attention to it, except to notice it exists.

Back to the M52 question, my old gun wouldn't cycle reliably with the 2.7 grain loads of Bullseye most recommended. So I upped it to 3.0 and it worked fine in the 52 and all my revolvers. It was easier to settle upon a load that worked well in all guns.

Was given, by a gun shop! a part box of Factory Winchester a while ago - noticed a ring "knurled" indentations on outside of case - is this a crimp of some sort?

Ditto - on 3gr glad its not just me have to use 3gr or being the other side of the pond - and I thought Bullseye didn't travel - like good ale...

DCC

 

[socal s&w]

That 'knurled' ring is to prevent the bullet from sliding deeper into the case from recoil. I'm not sure what they were thinking when they did that for the mild 52 loads??? Although, I suppose that it might have a chance of happening due to a light crimp.

 

[Bill22250]

Ditto what Dale53 said. I have the Factory crimp in the last station on my Dillon RL550. Works like a champ.

Ditto x 2 "It shot like a house afire and Ron Benge, our club champion, handles it better than well."

I ALWAYS resize, why not? Who wants to go to the range and futz around with ammo and pistol? Hey how about this one, alibi x 10 during a match? I don't think so....

 

[harry carey]

i use a super 38 carbide size die to remove the bulge at the base of the bullet from the loaded round with wadcutters . i load a 9mm valiant cast.3565 bullet backwards for my 52 it is kinda like a rebated boattail and i use 2.7 bullseye. this is very accurate.