Model 544. In Win.44-40

[Dave.357]

I have purchased a mod.544
Will not get it for a week it
Is coming from TX.
Is any one shooting one of
These . I plan on loading
lead bullets any suggestions?
Thanks Dave.357

 

[bearpa]

A friend had one, used .429 cast bullets in it. Was told by a S&W field rep the barrel was same as 44 mag, not .427 as the original 44-40's are.

He said it was accurate, and fun to shoot. I believe he used Unique powder for his loads.

 

[Bakebfr480]

Where in Texas did you get it? I was looking at one in a LGS in Victoria!

 

[505Gibbs]

Go slowly on the reloading. This cartridge has thin wall in the neck and can buckle.

 

[jaymoore]

Mine has a proper sized cylinder throats for the usual .44-40 bullets. You can use .44 spl/mag lead projectiles, but they're a little big.

I like the IMR 4198 load that i found in an earlier printing of the 2nd ed. of Lee's reloading handbook, but it's not in the newer versions, along with a whole bunch of other data!

With the usual faster pistol powders, start with your favorite, and work from there. Trail Boss is good if you want good case fill to minimize the potential for double charging cases, but you may have to use a rifle powder dispenser for best uniformity without the huge bother of weighing each one.

BTW, zero need for hard cast bullets! Soft swaged bullets will do perfectly well, especially if you use the widely available .44 mag versions.

 

[Dave.357]

Where

Where in Texas did you get it? I was looking at one in a LGS in Victoria!

Off G/B seller was Lakeview pawn
The Colony TX
How much were they asking?
Thanks Dave357

 

[Dave.357]

44-40

Mine has a proper sized cylinder throats for the usual .44-40 bullets. You can use .44 spl/mag lead projectiles, but they're a little big.

I like the IMR 4198 load that i found in an earlier printing of the 2nd ed. of Lee's reloading handbook, but it's not in the newer versions, along with a whole bunch of other data!

With the usual faster pistol powders, start with your favorite, and work from there. Trail Boss is good if you want good case fill to minimize the potential for double charging cases, but you may have to use a rifle powder dispenser for best uniformity without the huge bother of weighing each one.


BTW, zero need for hard cast bullets! Soft swaged bullets will do perfectly well, especially if you use the widely available .44 mag versions.

Thanks I will check throats and
And bore as soon as it comes
Really hope it is for .429

 

[growr]

a 200 gr. RNL and 6 gr. of Unique is a very mild and quite accurate load that I have used since 2000 in my SASS 44-40's.

When reloading make absolutely sure that the casing is going straight into the die body, spray them with Hornady One Shot Spray lube, don't over flare the case mouth (all you need is enough flare to accept a new bullet), and just enough crimp to hold the bullet and no more than that.

Yes, the case wall is thin and easily crumpled...you WILL crumple some until you get your dies set just right. That is part of the learning curve most of us will go through.

Many SASS shooters using 44-40 use only Starline casings.

Have a blast as it is a way cool cartridge, especially if you ever choose to shoot Black Powder!!!

Randy

 

[biku324]

I have purchased a mod.544
Will not get it for a week it
Is coming from TX.
Is any one shooting one of
These . I plan on loading
lead bullets any suggestions?
Thanks Dave.357

Yes - they are excellent shooters and will do anything a 357 will and with a bigger bullet. Here's my data:

Marlin 1894S, 20" MG barrel; S&W 544, 5" barrel:

44-40 200 grain Nosler JHP, Starline cases, CCI 300 caps, and

-18.0 grains 2400 (it shoots very well in the 1894S)
Rifle - 1389 fps, ev 1351-1453
Revolver - 1139 fps, ev 1128-1158

- 8.5 grains Unique, a great revolver load
Rifle - 1095 fps, ev 1050-1145
Revolver - 897 fps, ev 841-971

-16.0 grains AA#9
Rifle - 1183 fps, ev 1120-1301
Revolver - 833 fps, ev 807-857.

I finished up my search for the upper end of Longshot 44-40 data; at 12.0 grains, extreme spreads grew quickly. There was still no primer flattening nor unusual case expansion, but if I want a magnum, I'll buy one.

The 'sweet spot' for consistent velocities with this caliber/powder/bullet combination lies between 10.5 and 11.5 grains, with the very lowest extreme spread (ES) at 11.0 grains, which provides 976 fps mean velocity in the Smith and 1344 fps in the Marlin. I think I'll edge upward at 0.1 grain increments to find the best accuracy between 10.5 and 11.5 grains.

The weather was 70 degrees with about 10-15 mph winds. The data is also for 5-shot groups.

Charge Weight S&W Mean Velocity Extreme Spread Marlin Mean Vel Extreme Spread

11.0 grains 976 fps 63 fps 1344 fps 48 fps
11.5 grains 1,018 fps 72 fps 1414 fps 121 fps
12.0 grains 1101 fps 298 fps 1499 fps 290 fps

Additional info:

I've found 'the' load. It's 11.2 grains of Longshot behind the 200 grain Nosler. It gives me 1005 fps mean velocity with the Smith, 1421 fps with the Marlin; ES is 68 fps revolver, 81 fps rifle, and the groups reflect the consistency. I tried 10.8 to 11.8 grains in .2 grain increments; 11.2 was the 2nd best for ES, but far and away the most accurate. Groups were round, symmetric with no stringing; at 25 yards I chewed the center out of my homemade targets with 20 rounds from the Smith after sight adjustment, and the nearly same at 75 yards with the Marlin, which also required sight adjustment (no fun with the Williams 5D, by the way). Second best was 11.4 grains with slightly larger groups and an extra 23 fps revolver and 34 fps rifle, but I'll stick with best groups and caution on pressures.

 

[Dave.357]

44-40

Yes - they are excellent shooters and will do anything a 357 will and with a bigger bullet. Here's my data:

Marlin 1894S, 20" MG barrel; S&W 544, 5" barrel:

44-40 200 grain Nosler JHP, Starline cases, CCI 300 caps, and

-18.0 grains 2400 (it shoots very well in the 1894S)
Rifle - 1389 fps, ev 1351-1453
Revolver - 1139 fps, ev 1128-1158

- 8.5 grains Unique, a great revolver load
Rifle - 1095 fps, ev 1050-1145
Revolver - 897 fps, ev 841-971

-16.0 grains AA#9
Rifle - 1183 fps, ev 1120-1301
Revolver - 833 fps, ev 807-857.

I finished up my search for the upper end of Longshot 44-40 data; at 12.0 grains, extreme spreads grew quickly. There was still no primer flattening nor unusual case expansion, but if I want a magnum, I'll buy one.

The 'sweet spot' for consistent velocities with this caliber/powder/bullet combination lies between 10.5 and 11.5 grains, with the very lowest extreme spread (ES) at 11.0 grains, which provides 976 fps mean velocity in the Smith and 1344 fps in the Marlin. I think I'll edge upward at 0.1 grain increments to find the best accuracy between 10.5 and 11.5 grains.

The weather was 70 degrees with about 10-15 mph winds. The data is also for 5-shot groups.

Charge Weight S&W Mean Velocity Extreme Spread Marlin Mean Vel Extreme Spread

11.0 grains 976 fps 63 fps 1344 fps 48 fps
11.5 grains 1,018 fps 72 fps 1414 fps 121 fps
12.0 grains 1101 fps 298 fps 1499 fps 290 fps

Additional info:

I've found 'the' load. It's 11.2 grains of Longshot behind the 200 grain Nosler. It gives me 1005 fps mean velocity with the Smith, 1421 fps with the Marlin; ES is 68 fps revolver, 81 fps rifle, and the groups reflect the consistency. I tried 10.8 to 11.8 grains in .2 grain increments; 11.2 was the 2nd best for ES, but far and away the most accurate. Groups were round, symmetric with no stringing; at 25 yards I chewed the center out of my homemade targets with 20 rounds from the Smith after sight adjustment, and the nearly same at 75 yards with the Marlin, which also required sight adjustment (no fun with the Williams 5D, by the way). Second best was 11.4 grains with slightly larger groups and an extra 23 fps revolver and 34 fps rifle, but I'll stick with best groups and caution on pressures.

Sounds good will get a LB. of longshot
And give it a try
Thanks Dave.357

 

[Dave.357]

44-40

a 200 gr. RNL and 6 gr. of Unique is a very mild and quite accurate load that I have used since 2000 in my SASS 44-40's.

When reloading make absolutely sure that the casing is going straight into the die body, spray them with Hornady One Shot Spray lube, don't over flare the case mouth (all you need is enough flare to accept a new bullet), and just enough crimp to hold the bullet and no more than that.

Yes, the case wall is thin and easily crumpled...you WILL crumple some until you get your dies set just right. That is part of the learning curve most of us will go through.

Many SASS shooters using 44-40 use only Starline casings.

Have a blast as it is a way cool cartridge, especially if you ever choose to shoot Black Powder!!!

Randy

Thanks Randy I ordered 100
Starline brass
Dave.357

 

[6string]

Please post your findings on throat and bore sizes.
It's been a while since I've seen a 544 or heard anyone talk much about using them, but cylinder throats were generally known to run much tighter than the bore. A number of customers who missed out on the 24-3 run in the early 80s jumped on the 544, looking for a consolation prize, only to be disappointed.
Put another way, the cylinders were well done for the 44-40 ctg, but are not ideal for a typical M29 barrel.

You could open up the throats to use the 0.432" bullets that typically do best in a M29 barrel. But that may lead to other problems in the reloading process.
Maybe you could fit a 44 spl cylinder (or have one rechambered from a 357 cylinder)? Would be an interesting comparison.

Or, maybe you'll have the luck of the draw and get a real winner!!

Looking forward to hearing your results.

Jim

 

[biku324]

The throats on mine were .428" so for jacketed bullets I bought the smallest diameter, which were the Nosler 200 grain JHP. They shot great, the slightly larger Hornady not quite as well and you could tell the pressures were higher.

 

[Dave.357]

44-40

Please post your findings on throat and bore sizes.
It's been a while since I've seen a 544 or heard anyone talk much about using them, but cylinder throats were generally known to run much tighter than the bore. A number of customers who missed out on the 24-3 run in the early 80s jumped on the 544, looking for a consolation prize, only to be disappointed.
Put another way, the cylinders were well done for the 44-40 ctg, but are not ideal for a typical M29 barrel.

You could open up the throats to use the 0.432" bullets that typically do best in a M29 barrel. But that may lead to other problems in the reloading process.
Maybe you could fit a 44 spl cylinder (or have one rechambered from a 357 cylinder)? Would be an interesting comparison.

Or, maybe you'll have the luck of the draw and get a real winner!!

Looking forward to hearing your results.

Jim

I believe I own a 24-3 that once
Belonged to you it remains
Unfired in box.
I wonder if s@w would open
Throats if they are small?

 

[Dave.357]

44-40

Please post your findings on throat and bore sizes.
It's been a while since I've seen a 544 or heard anyone talk much about using them, but cylinder throats were generally known to run much tighter than the bore. A number of customers who missed out on the 24-3 run in the early 80s jumped on the 544, looking for a consolation prize, only to be disappointed.
Put another way, the cylinders were well done for the 44-40 ctg, but are not ideal for a typical M29 barrel.

You could open up the throats to use the 0.432" bullets that typically do best in a M29 barrel. But that may lead to other problems in the reloading process.
Maybe you could fit a 44 spl cylinder (or have one rechambered from a 357 cylinder)? Would be an interesting comparison.

Or, maybe you'll have the luck of the draw and get a real winner!!

Looking forward to hearing your results.

Jim

I believe I own a 24-3 that once
Belonged to you it remains
Unfired in box.
I wonder if s@w would open
Throats if they are small?

 

[6string]

Oh yeah... the 6.5" 24-3? Good to hear from you again!
I guess you like those 44s!!

(By the way, all my S&W 44s came with .432" throats. Makes casting easier...Ha!)

S&W probably won't touch that sort of job.
But, the tools are affordable from Brownell's, and it's easy to do.
I bet someone here could open the throats easily if you prefer. You don't even need to send out the whole gun!

The determined reloader would really try to get or modify a set of dies for 44-40 that accomodates a .431-.432" bullet. RCBS cowboy dies might be able to be special ordered?
A Lee Loader could be easily modified.

My first bullseye revolver was a 2nd model HE in 455 Eley.
It was very gratifying to get winning scores, as much for the efforts at the loading bench as on the firing line!
One other recollection....USFA made their Premium SAA in 44 spl/44-40 convertible. They ran everything tight, for a .429" slug. But, I recall some of the 44-40 cylinders were a tad smaller. When opened up to match the 44 spl cylinder, the two shot cartridges are supposed to shoot equally well from that fine revolver.
I'm sure the 544 can be made to shoot very well, one way or another! They sure look nice!

Jim

 

[tennexplorer]

You should contact Muley Gil on the forum. Has a 544. Knows a lot. I do know Model 27 and Model 24 cylinders are too short to be rechambered. A Model 29 cylinder has to be shortened very slightly to fit the cylinder window.

 

[6string]

I just had a strange, almost suspicious, thought.....

The situation with the 544 is very similar to that of the 25-2, where cylinder throats and bore are not ideal for one another (at least in many cases, but perhaps not all).

You might see 25-2s with .457" throats and a .451-.452" bore, and, you might see 544s with .428" throats and a .430" bore.

But, you'd be hard pressed to find such things with their proprietary cartridges such as 38 spl, 44 spl, 41 mag, 44 mag, etc.

I wonder why?
At least the 544 is the easier to remedy! Plus, the 5" barrel on the N frame is worth the effort!

Jim

 

[Bakebfr480]

Off G/B seller was Lakeview pawn
The Colony TX
How much were they asking?
Thanks Dave357

$1100.00 with the presentation case and tools.

 

[Dave.357]

44-40

I just had a strange, almost suspicious, thought.....

The situation with the 544 is very similar to that of the 25-2, where cylinder throats and bore are not ideal for one another (at least in many cases, but perhaps not all).

You might see 25-2s with .457" throats and a .451-.452" bore, and, you might see 544s with .428" throats and a .430" bore.

But, you'd be hard pressed to find such things with their proprietary cartridges such as 38 spl, 44 spl, 41 mag, 44 mag, etc.

I wonder why?
At least the 544 is the easier to remedy! Plus, the 5" barrel on the N frame is worth the effort!

Jim

Will not see gun till Monday
Have dies have ordered brass
No use sizing bullets till
I check throats and bore
Time will tell
Thanks
Dave.357