Model of 91 Single Shot Transitional or Replacement

[Boulder350]

In researching the Model of 91 revolvers and single shots many unique examples show up. Here is one with a first model serial number, a late second model frame with one pin, and an un-numbered barrel and latch from a 3rd model.

Originally I was thinking that all first model guns with the recoil shields mostly removed, flat sides, and grooved sides were transitional guns. This dose not include the buba's gun shop modified guns. Here is a thread discussing this.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/687596-single-shot-transition-recoil-shield-groved.html

In addition to these transitional models Smith and Wesson may have replaced some first model frames with later model frames. This gun could be explained that way. Don't think it can be a transitional model with the 1 pinned frame. Maybe the shooter wore out their original first model and sent in back to Smith and Wesson for repairs. Smith and Wesson could have decided to update their frame and stamped it with the original serial number.

What are your thoughts?

 

[rct269]

I have not seen, but have heard (from more than reliable sources) of what I believe would qualify as what you're calling a "transitional"-----what appears in all respects to be a 2nd Model (including the one pin frame), but bearing a 1st Model serial number-----and lettering as a 1st Model.

Somewhere along the way, somebody (possibly even me, but I can't say for sure) asked Jinks about this---What's up with these 2nd Models with 1st Model serial numbers? The reply was along the lines of a non-response response-----"Any single shot with a 1st Model serial number is going to letter as a 1st Model."---end of discussion.

And speaking of "a non-response response" this probably qualifies!

I view these anomalies as (obviously and practically), They did what they did---never mind what they did makes any sense to us today.

All that said, the unnumbered 3rd Model barrel and latch (presumably also with the 3rd Model sight?) gives me pause. My knee-jerk reaction is this is a "put together" gun (with the barrel and latch coming from the Parts Department)---and strikes me as something a serious shooter might have done (but only because of my presumption that it carries a 3rd Model sight---and it goes without saying the 3rd Model sight is VASTLY superior to those which preceded it.) And that said, I'm almost certain the latch/sight for a 3rd Model will bolt right on to a 1st/2nd---no muss-no fuss-and no bother!

Now if (IF) your 3rd Model barrel is an Olympic barrel, then I become virtually certain yours is a "put together" gun. An old and long gone friend had Dave Chicoine put together such a gun. I'd bought an auction lot of 15-18 single shot barrels---to get three that I wanted. I gave the rest to my friend---and one of the rest was an unmarked/unfinished Olympic barrel. He sent the whole mess off to Dave who fit and finished the Olympic barrel (seems like also a .32 barrel) to his frame (already part of a "put together" gun)---and Dave took the rest of the barrels in exchange for his work.

And now with my mind going way off the deep end, maybe your gun was his gun.

Stranger things have happened!!

Ralph Tremaine

And now, having looked at the pictures, you have a 3rd Model sight. If you're a shooter, it's time to count your blessings! And seeing roll markings on your barrel, yours is not my friend's gun.

 

[Boulder350]

It does not have an Olympic chamber.

It does have some interesting features, like why the groove was machined wider when there was one already there - if it started life as a late 2nd model frame. The barrel has a 2 line patent without model of 91.

 

[rct269]

As you may be already aware, I believe the grooves (in the 2nds & 3rds) as well as the "fancy flat" ground on the bottom of the 3rd barrel lug were done to remove weight (not much, I grant you) so as to achieve the same "balance" as the 1st. I proved this to my satisfaction by hanging one each of a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (10" all) by the trigger guards (with hammers cocked) on a rod sitting between the backs of two chairs. They all hung at virtually the same angle. (I say "virtually" because my 10" 1st was shipped to Germany, and came back with a shorter and thinner mainspring (as well as a new notch to accommodate the reduced length), and a larger (heavier) front sight----just to mess with my experiment. The end result, of course, was my 10" 1st didn't hang perzactly as it would if it hadn't been messed with------but it was close enough to suit me.

As to why yours has a wider groove, it may be someone made a similar discovery to mine----and decided it needed to be messed with a wee bit more---custom balanced.

As for me, the balance of the 8" guns beats that of the 10" all to hell!

The two line address on the 3rds was on the later guns, both my 6" & 8" 3rds carried one line addresses---and were EARLY early (4807 & 4826)---both made in mid 1911. The 8" shipped two days after it was competed, and it took a little longer for the 6"----FOUR AND A HALF YEARS!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Boulder350]

Here is another one. Is this a transitional or a replacement frame for a customer? Maybe there is another explanation for it.

No cut for hand or cylinder stop with grooves on the sides of the frame. First model serial number on the bottom of the frame. No date marks for a factory return. The barrel and frame numbers match. No serial number on the rear sight.