More caliber options for the M&P 15-22

[Kenneth07ex]

Maybe start with a .17. This is a nice little flat shooting center fire. And an excellent round for small game.

I'd like to see some small auto loading pistol calibers as well. S&W should take better advantage of the modularity provided with this AR patterned rifle. That's the beauty of the AR. It has the capability to be almost any caliber. Limited only by the space in the magwell. And in this case, further limited by the power of the round. It is mostly polymer. And not designed to be very robust. But certainly built strong enough for at least a .32, maybe even .380
The main thing is to give us something that we can reload for.

 

[cyphertext]

Why do that with the M&P 15-22 when you could do it with a true AR? Why would S&W waste R&D resources to reinvent the wheel?

 

[Kenneth07ex]

Why do that with the M&P 15-22 when you could do it with a true AR? Why would S&W waste R&D resources to reinvent the wheel?

Seriously? How much R&D resources does it take to reinvent an existing wheel? They're not asked to build a whole new firearm, just an upper. Complete with a proper sized bolt carrier group. I highly doubt that a project like that, would be more than an extremely small task. Especially for a large gun manufacturer.

I think the 15-22 is a perfect platform for smaller auto cartridges. It's substantially smaller, and lighter than an AR. Small pistol calibers would even make it a candidate for home defense that anyone in the household could easily fire.

There is no .17 or .32 upper available for the AR platform that I'm aware of. Even if there were, it would be unnecessarily heavy for what it is. So this would fill a gap, providing a nice little plinking, and small game rifle. Perfect for introducing kids to hunting, and shooting in general.

Just like some of the ridiculously heavy, overpowered, unwieldy revolvers aren't for me. I understand that the 15-22 might not be for everyone. But there's no denying that it's an extremely popular little gun. I believe that it can, and probably will out perform the ruger 10/22 in sales. As more people become aware, and its popularity increases. Caliber variety would just make it more versatile. Which is kinda what the AR is all about.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Alexander Arms makes the only .17 HMR AR-15 that I know of. They are fairly well regarded. If you can find one, they are north of $1,000 . . .

 

[Kenneth07ex]

Alexander Arms makes the only .17 HMR AR-15 that I know of. They are fairly well regarded. If you can find one, they are north of $1,000 . . .

Great! That whole R&D problem just got exponentially smaller.

 

[cyphertext]

Seriously? How much R&D resources does it take to reinvent an existing wheel? They're not asked to build a whole new firearm, just an upper. Complete with a proper sized bolt carrier group. I highly doubt that a project like that, would be more than an extremely small task. Especially for a large gun manufacturer.

I think the 15-22 is a perfect platform for smaller auto cartridges. It's substantially smaller, and lighter than an AR. Small pistol calibers would even make it a candidate for home defense that anyone in the household could easily fire.

There is no .17 or .32 upper available for the AR platform that I'm aware of. Even if there were, it would be unnecessarily heavy for what it is. So this would fill a gap, providing a nice little plinking, and small game rifle. Perfect for introducing kids to hunting, and shooting in general.

Just like some of the ridiculously heavy, overpowered, unwieldy revolvers aren't for me. I understand that the 15-22 might not be for everyone. But there's no denying that it's an extremely popular little gun. I believe that it can, and probably will out perform the ruger 10/22 in sales. As more people become aware, and its popularity increases. Caliber variety would just make it more versatile. Which is kinda what the AR is all about.

The M&P 15-22 is lighter, but it is not "substantially smaller" than an AR. If it were, AR accessories would not fit on it, but they do!

The ability to convert the AR to smaller calibers already exists in the AR platform. You can find AR uppers in pretty much every common pistol caliber. The pistol caliber conversion for home defense already exists. The .17HMR AR upper is made by a few manufacturers, but as noted, they are expensive.

For introducing kids to shooting and hunting, there is no better cartridge than .22lr. My son's first semi auto was the M&P 15-22. He quickly moved up from that to an AR. He never hunted with the M&P though... too many rifles that are more accurate available in bolt action.

As far as popularity, yes, it is a popular rifle. But you speak as if this rifle is new to market. You do realize that the M&P 15-22 has been on the market since 2009, right? The only people who are not aware of it are most likely new to shooting. It is a great rifle, but the beauty of it is that it is a great analog trainer to the AR-15. It mimics the the operation and manual of arms of the AR-15 out of the box. After shooting the 15-22, my son easily moved over to a 5.56mm AR 15 and knew how to operate it. Just like during previous ammo shortages, I expect to see many 15-22s and .22lr AR-15 conversions on the shooting range line due to cost of ammo. I can shoot the M&P 15-22 all day long for the cost of one magazine of 5.56. That is what the 15-22 is about!

As far as overtaking Ruger 10/22, I don't think it will. The Ruger has been in production for over 50 years and has a huge following with tons of aftermarket support.

 

[Kenneth07ex]

The M&P 15-22 is lighter, but it is not "substantially smaller" than an AR. If it were, AR accessories would not fit on it, but they do!

The ability to convert the AR to smaller calibers already exists in the AR platform. You can find AR uppers in pretty much every common pistol caliber. The pistol caliber conversion for home defense already exists. The .17HMR AR upper is made by a few manufacturers, but as noted, they are expensive.

For introducing kids to shooting and hunting, there is no better cartridge than .22lr. My son's first semi auto was the M&P 15-22. He quickly moved up from that to an AR. He never hunted with the M&P though... too many rifles that are more accurate available in bolt action.

As far as popularity, yes, it is a popular rifle. But you speak as if this rifle is new to market. You do realize that the M&P 15-22 has been on the market since 2009, right? The only people who are not aware of it are most likely new to shooting. It is a great rifle, but the beauty of it is that it is a great analog trainer to the AR-15. It mimics the the operation and manual of arms of the AR-15 out of the box. After shooting the 15-22, my son easily moved over to a 5.56mm AR 15 and knew how to operate it. Just like during previous ammo shortages, I expect to see many 15-22s and .22lr AR-15 conversions on the shooting range line due to cost of ammo. I can shoot the M&P 15-22 all day long for the cost of one magazine of 5.56. That is what the 15-22 is about!

As far as overtaking Ruger 10/22, I don't think it will.

Just because you don't see a need, doesn't mean that others won't see it. This is a wish list thread after all. You certainly have the right to avoid it. Many would argue that a .22 upper is all that's needed, and that there's no need for the 15-22 at all. Obviously S&W disagrees that there's no need for it. I'd just like them to expand the usefulness of an existing product.

Nobody is suggesting that it will blow the 10/22 away in sales, and popularity. But I do believe that over time, it can capture a greater market share than the ruger. Although probably not in the 15-22s present state of development. While the 15-22 has been out for awhile, it has spent a significant amount of that time with overcoming some of the original design issues. Also there's the appleseed controversy, that has dealt a massive setback to this gun's popularity. Minus just those two examples, I believe we'd already see a more significant market presence.

I believe that it's an indisputable point, that the current success of the little ruger, can be attributed almost directly to the aftermarket availability of upgrades. I have one that sees zero use now. Mostly because of the amount of trouble that it takes to clean. Not to mention loading the mags.

Upgrades, and modularity are the strong points of the AR platform. If the same scope of upgrades were applied to the 15-22, then I believe that we'd see a dramatically different market. And I think that caliber choice should be a part of those upgrades.

 

[cyphertext]

You're right... it is a wish list. I just don't think that many folks are interested in the multi caliber 15-22 when the AR already does it. I've never heard anyone else talk about wanting a 15-22 in other calibers.

As far as a .22lr upper... I have a CMMG Quebec A. Fully dedicated .22lr upper that was sold with a CMMG multi-caliber lower. Out of the box, the M&P 15-22 functioned like a true AR. It held the bolt open after the magazine was removed. I had to add parts to my CMMG to add that "feature". But the biggest complaint I have always heard regarding the 15-22 was the "weight", really the lack thereof.

I do think that Appleseed may have hurt it a few years ago, but I also think that Appleseed has also fallen off the radar. At least here in the Dallas area, very rarely do they list an Appleseed event.

The M&P 15-22 fills a niche market... folks that want a .22lr that looks and operates like an AR. Being able to use AR accessories is icing on the cake. Those who just want a .22lr will typically go for the Ruger or Marlin simply because of price.

 

[Jon651]

Great! That whole R&D problem just got exponentially smaller.

I'm no firearms engineer, but you have to consider at what point would the round you want to use require the M&P15-22 platform to need components it does not have. The M&P15-22 is straight blowback design (no gas system, no buffer tube, and the bolt does not lock to the breech), but how much more powerful of a round can it take before you will need those things to make the weapon cycle and function reasonably well?

Add to that the fact that the M&P15-22's lower is molded specifically for the magazines that take the .22LR round - would that need to be re-designed as well for a different sized round? Now mix in the popularity of these new rounds as compared to the already extremely popular .22LR and you have to start asking if it makes economic sense to go through the trouble. Like I said - I don't know, but these are all things to consider.

 

[vipermd]

Putting an anemic, expensive Caliber like 32 into an AR upper makes no sense. You have a 32 lr, cheap, available, and allows the 15-22 to function as a verry good training rifle/cartridge combination, a 32,380,17, do not have significant improvement in ballistics.Which is why you see 9mm AR'S, NOT 32/17. BE SAFE, HAVE

 

[Kenneth07ex]

I see zero reason for the pistol AR, but I'd never stand up and list reasons why it shouldn't exist. And I would never say they shouldn't be made. I think the whole premise of an arm brace is ridiculous, and disingenuous. But I'd never list reasons why people would obviously use them in a way other than was supposedly intended. Nor had I ever heard any conversations saying that they should have AR pistols available. Can't imagine why anyone would want, or need one. Yet here they are. So obviously someone saw a market.

You probably don't do a lot of coon hunting in Dallas. So maybe you're not aware that while a .22 will get the job done. It's only just by a slim margin. Rabbits will drop dead with little more than harsh language. But a raccoon often goes out with a fight. And for obvious reasons, you really want that skunk that you shot, to die instantly. Then there's beaver, and nutria. Both invasive nuisance animals that should be shot on sight. In all these cases, a perfect shot would be the best solution. But that's not always possible. I think a .32, or a .380 from a rifle would do very well. Taking advantage of the increased accuracy, and ballistics that a rifle can provide. I think the 15-22 is just the rifle to do it.

I really like the lack of weight. That's one of the things that make it ideal for the upgrade that I'm suggesting. That and the fact that I'd like to have a center fire, reloadable alternative, in the 15-22 package. I think the niche market should be expanded. If you think otherwise, that's okay too. But I'd like to have a good all around small rifle for the farm. Something extremely light, that has a long enough barrel to take full advantage of a pistol caliber, and yet keep my fingers safe from the muzzle. Yet light enough to stow behind the seat of the gator.

 

[cyphertext]

I don't think anyone is trying to say that they shouldn't be made, but more reasons as to why this will remain as a wish than actually come to fruition.

From what you described in your last paragraph above, sounds like you really want a bare bones AR-15 in a pistol caliber. Or perhaps a Ruger Pistol Caliber Carbine.. those are available in a takedown model.

Personally, when I am out at the deer lease, I keep my Marlin .30-.30 handy. Handles any varmints I run into. Can keep racoons off the deer feeder as well as take care of any wild hogs I may see.

 

[Kenneth07ex]

An SBR is exactly what I'd like for the purpose. But because it requires a tax stamp, then for my purposes it's a bad idea on several levels. And of course it's only a wish. There's absolutely zero chance that S&W would ever consider it. But then, that's exactly why this sub forum exists.

I don't care for the pistol caliber ARs, they're just too heavy. I have a rotator cuff injury, and pulling out a full size AR from behind the seat of the gator is extremely painful. The little 15-22 just whips out like a pistol. I have a 12g for any hogs I might encounter on the back 40.