Jeppo
Member
4T5GUY
You're looking for s/n prefixes on any TSW gun or just those two specific prefixes?
You're looking for s/n prefixes on any TSW gun or just those two specific prefixes?
My history with the 4563TSW
- Thread starter 18DAI
- Start date
I was just noticing that these "different" no railed TSW's were sharing the same prefix. I can't imagine that this is an accident but I don't know for sure. I don't have very many non railed, (not enough,) TSW's but MSF and TDU seem to be a common prefix in the ones I have. There's a TDM there too but it's the only one I have. I do realize that some were only made for a couple of years so that explains the like prefixes.
I think it's interesting, at least to me to track these special order examples. Of course 18DAI was the reason I started down this path. I was very happy with my pre-rail examples until he shared a picture of a no rail 7rnd 4513TSW example with me. He thankfully was instrumental in me getting one. They are not just somewhat rare and difficult to find/get, but they are extremely perfectly built pistols. Slide to frame rail fit is a tight as any PC pistol I have. Really. Triggers are perfect and better than some PC's I have. They hold there own in accuracy with the Briley bushing ones I have. I'm comparing the "working" .45 PC examples I have and not the target ones.
Jim
Jeppo
Member
Got it. I've got a TSW in each of the three flavors but they must be "normal" examples.
I'm sure none of the TSW's are "normal," and a big step above their regular production counterparts. There probably is no difference in the latter ones at all, (other than a rail.)
I just don't have a railed one to compare the others to and I don't foresee myself getting one. It's just a personal preference for me and have no doubt that the TSW railed versions are top notch and put together with extra attention and skill.
Jim
I just don't have a railed one to compare the others to and I don't foresee myself getting one. It's just a personal preference for me and have no doubt that the TSW railed versions are top notch and put together with extra attention and skill.
Jim
vigil617
US Veteran
I sure hope 18 has his work schedule arranged to allow for some of that range time he's been needing for the new acquisition. 
S'posed to be a pretty and unseasonably warm weekend here in North Carolina, so maybe we will get that range report he's been promising.
S'posed to be a pretty and unseasonably warm weekend here in North Carolina, so maybe we will get that range report he's been promising.
vigil617 I was on duty the last 4 nights, including tonight. I am scheduled to work at the range all day tomorrow.
Either before we open or after we close, I intend to run a few mags through the 4563TSW. Not an extended range session, but enough to check function and make sure she shoots to point of aim. Sorry for the delay!
Regards 18DAI
Either before we open or after we close, I intend to run a few mags through the 4563TSW. Not an extended range session, but enough to check function and make sure she shoots to point of aim. Sorry for the delay!
Regards 18DAIRange Report
I finally got to shoot the 4563. We were VERY busy all day, till around 10 minutes before closing. So I had to use a lane that "broke" yesterday. Someone hit the travel rail, causing the target carrier to not go beyond the 10 yard line. But that worked, for me, as I was tired and didn't have my range bag to rest the pistol on.
So I ran 4 mags - 32 rounds - to test for function and check that POA = POI. I used 8 rounds of S&B 230 ball, 8 rounds Sig Performance 230 ball and 16 rounds of Federal HST 230 JHP Standard velocity.
The gun ran 100% as expected. I had done the "pencil test" after cleaning to check for function and it had launched it across the room. Ejection was good, throwing everything up and over my right shoulder. I ran the S&B first. It went into 4" with 1 flyer. The Sig ball did a little better ar around 3.5", again with a pulled shot, from me. The HST grouped best, as expected for premium defensive ammo. Both groups averaging around 2".
I am VERY happy with the rail free 4563TSW! -Thank you again vigil617! It will go in my holster when working the range and also get carried a lot this winter.
I may change the grips out to the thinner OEM Delrins with a rubber grip sleeve. The Hogues on it now felt....thick, to me. I had to keep adjusting my grip in between mag changes. All my 3rd gen carry guns wear OEMs with the rubber sleeve set up. It anchors them in my hands better. And enables me to shoot tighter groups, faster.
Of course the trigger is a primary considerstion in an accurate pistol, despite what you may read elsewhere. The trigger on this 4563 is great. Very smooth with a crisp let off in DA and SA. Short reset like every 3rd gen. A couple of the younger guys working with me tried the trigger and were amazed by it. Their exposure is only with plastic striker fired guns. They had never experienced a good trigger. I teased them that I was old enough to remember when manufacturers strove to give handguns a good trigger right out of the box, without having to resort to aftermarket to obtain one.
I intend to spend more range time with the 4563 when my schedule slows down......if it slows down. With the tragic election outcome I anticipate a high volume continuing at the range and many more private lesson students on my days off. Ammunition availability appears to be going to get worse. But between the police supply and the instructors ammo discount I have managed to put up enough ammo that I can still shoot a few hundred rounds a month. And the next few months will be used familiarizing myself with the superb 4563TSW. Regards 18DAI
I finally got to shoot the 4563. We were VERY busy all day, till around 10 minutes before closing. So I had to use a lane that "broke" yesterday. Someone hit the travel rail, causing the target carrier to not go beyond the 10 yard line. But that worked, for me, as I was tired and didn't have my range bag to rest the pistol on.
So I ran 4 mags - 32 rounds - to test for function and check that POA = POI. I used 8 rounds of S&B 230 ball, 8 rounds Sig Performance 230 ball and 16 rounds of Federal HST 230 JHP Standard velocity.
The gun ran 100% as expected. I had done the "pencil test" after cleaning to check for function and it had launched it across the room. Ejection was good, throwing everything up and over my right shoulder. I ran the S&B first. It went into 4" with 1 flyer. The Sig ball did a little better ar around 3.5", again with a pulled shot, from me. The HST grouped best, as expected for premium defensive ammo. Both groups averaging around 2".
I am VERY happy with the rail free 4563TSW!
-Thank you again vigil617! It will go in my holster when working the range and also get carried a lot this winter.I may change the grips out to the thinner OEM Delrins with a rubber grip sleeve. The Hogues on it now felt....thick, to me. I had to keep adjusting my grip in between mag changes. All my 3rd gen carry guns wear OEMs with the rubber sleeve set up. It anchors them in my hands better. And enables me to shoot tighter groups, faster.
Of course the trigger is a primary considerstion in an accurate pistol, despite what you may read elsewhere.
The trigger on this 4563 is great. Very smooth with a crisp let off in DA and SA. Short reset like every 3rd gen. A couple of the younger guys working with me tried the trigger and were amazed by it. Their exposure is only with plastic striker fired guns. They had never experienced a good trigger. I teased them that I was old enough to remember when manufacturers strove to give handguns a good trigger right out of the box, without having to resort to aftermarket to obtain one. I intend to spend more range time with the 4563 when my schedule slows down......if it slows down. With the tragic election outcome I anticipate a high volume continuing at the range and many more private lesson students on my days off. Ammunition availability appears to be going to get worse. But between the police supply and the instructors ammo discount I have managed to put up enough ammo that I can still shoot a few hundred rounds a month. And the next few months will be used familiarizing myself with the superb 4563TSW. Regards 18DAI
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vigil617
US Veteran
Fixed it for ya!
Really glad this gun has turned out to have met your expectations. It's always a bit of a risk to buy something sight unseen, but the good thing about Third Gen pistols on auction sites is that we can feel confident from the get-go that they've been manufactured well and built to last. Still, it's good to find out for sure that what you've invested in is a "keeper."
Looking forward to more updates as you're able to wring it out over time. Keep us posted!
A lot of good points in your last post, particularly about grips and triggers. Always gratifying to find someone who reinforces opinions you have already developed on your own. 
I don't understand this modern business of trying to fluff off terrible triggers. A terrible trigger is a terrible trigger! Of course they are an impediment to accurate shooting. Why would anyone claim otherwise? (I guess we know the answer to that one. 
)
Hogue grips on S&W automatics have never felt right to me, but the Handall things cure the grip problem for me. Not pretty, but they work.
Great to know the gun has worked well and that the purchase was a good one. Congrats!
I don't understand this modern business of trying to fluff off terrible triggers. A terrible trigger is a terrible trigger! Of course they are an impediment to accurate shooting. Why would anyone claim otherwise? (I guess we know the answer to that one. )Hogue grips on S&W automatics have never felt right to me, but the Handall things cure the grip problem for me. Not pretty, but they work.
Great to know the gun has worked well and that the purchase was a good one. Congrats!
Amen brother!
As we have discussed triggers and accurate shooting at the range that I am working at again, I and one other older fella (who carrys a TDA pistol also) realized that the younger guys, don't know what they don't know.
A few of them are young Marines, transitioning from active to reserves. All their experience has been with striker fired plastic. Glocks in their case. They have been conditioned to the "same trigger pull" is good enough. And that works, for them. To a degree.
But the other "old guy" and I routinely best them on the range. Because we both came up on revolvers, know a good trigger and how to work it and have shot just about everything out there. As far as handguns go. So these young guys have started trying other types of pistols and are discovering the benefits of a smooth crisp trigger. And they are shooting better groups.
With manufacturers pushing cheaply made guns out the door and people lining up to buy them, it is little wonder that no effort is made to provide a decent trigger on their product. And Apex tactical is probably pleased with that.
But there are a few manufacturers that are trying. We recently evaluated a few new pistols, for the rental case. The Mossberg MC2c was one of them. A thin 9mm with a GREAT feeling grip. And the trigger was not awful. Fairly smooth with a short reset. The gun shot well. For all of us. Walther also has a decent striker fired trigger on its pistols.
I don't own any striker fired plastic guns. I've no use for them. But my friendJeppo recently pointed out to me that it would behoove me to purchase a current production gun, for the sake of my private lesson customers. Most of whom have no idea how to find and purchase out of print guns online. Wise counsel.
So I may pick up one of those Mossberg MC2c pistols to teach with. Easy enough to shoot and manipulate and easily found for sale locally. For not too much money either. Regards 18DAI
As we have discussed triggers and accurate shooting at the range that I am working at again, I and one other older fella (who carrys a TDA pistol also) realized that the younger guys, don't know what they don't know.
A few of them are young Marines, transitioning from active to reserves. All their experience has been with striker fired plastic. Glocks in their case. They have been conditioned to the "same trigger pull" is good enough. And that works, for them. To a degree.
But the other "old guy" and I routinely best them on the range. Because we both came up on revolvers, know a good trigger and how to work it and have shot just about everything out there. As far as handguns go. So these young guys have started trying other types of pistols and are discovering the benefits of a smooth crisp trigger. And they are shooting better groups.
With manufacturers pushing cheaply made guns out the door and people lining up to buy them, it is little wonder that no effort is made to provide a decent trigger on their product. And Apex tactical is probably pleased with that.
But there are a few manufacturers that are trying. We recently evaluated a few new pistols, for the rental case. The Mossberg MC2c was one of them. A thin 9mm with a GREAT feeling grip. And the trigger was not awful. Fairly smooth with a short reset. The gun shot well. For all of us. Walther also has a decent striker fired trigger on its pistols.
I don't own any striker fired plastic guns. I've no use for them. But my friendJeppo recently pointed out to me that it would behoove me to purchase a current production gun, for the sake of my private lesson customers. Most of whom have no idea how to find and purchase out of print guns online. Wise counsel.
So I may pick up one of those Mossberg MC2c pistols to teach with. Easy enough to shoot and manipulate and easily found for sale locally. For not too much money either. Regards 18DAI
Jeppo
Member
18,
As always, your posts are a joy to read.
About "revolver guys" and triggers...
We have a mutual friend (who's been too overwhelmed with work recently to post much here) who is very much a revolver shooter. Once he collected (he prefers the word "accumulated") one or more of every S&W revolver ever made (ok, so that's maybe a small exaggeration), he began vacuuming up 3rd Gens.
A couple years ago, he generously offered me a recently purchased 6904. When I asked why he would unload such a nice gun (and one he'd apparently been excited to find), he explained that he recognized he prefers DAO because each trigger pull remains "revolver-like". It would be interesting to see how your young colleagues improve (or don't) if they only shot revolvers or DAO for a period of time. I'd like to believe that 2019 dedicated ONLY to my 66-1 helped me, at least a bit.
If I bring a 39-2 over to the range, do you think you could convince them all to shoot it? That might be entertaining.
As always, your posts are a joy to read.
About "revolver guys" and triggers...
We have a mutual friend (who's been too overwhelmed with work recently to post much here) who is very much a revolver shooter. Once he collected (he prefers the word "accumulated") one or more of every S&W revolver ever made (ok, so that's maybe a small exaggeration), he began vacuuming up 3rd Gens.
A couple years ago, he generously offered me a recently purchased 6904. When I asked why he would unload such a nice gun (and one he'd apparently been excited to find), he explained that he recognized he prefers DAO because each trigger pull remains "revolver-like". It would be interesting to see how your young colleagues improve (or don't) if they only shot revolvers or DAO for a period of time. I'd like to believe that 2019 dedicated ONLY to my 66-1 helped me, at least a bit.
If I bring a 39-2 over to the range, do you think you could convince them all to shoot it? That might be entertaining.
Jeppo they view revolvers as archaic. When they heard, from long time members who stopped to welcome me back, that I shot and at one time carried revolvers, they were in shock. "Cap n ball?" They joked. These young guys have no use for revolvers. And despite what I read on this board, neither does anyone else in the buying public.
But thanks for the offer! And YES it would help them if they had the desire to try one.
Very kind of you to offer the 39-2. And hilarity would probably ensue. But since it "only" holds 8+1, I'm afraid it would also be a non starter. Even the guy, besides me, who carries a TDA pistol, will NOT carry a single stack. I am the only one with a single stack gun. And the only one with a 45 too. But thank you for the generous offer!
I'm working all day tomorrow. Stop on by! Regards 18DAI
But thanks for the offer! And YES it would help them if they had the desire to try one.
Very kind of you to offer the 39-2. And hilarity would probably ensue. But since it "only" holds 8+1, I'm afraid it would also be a non starter. Even the guy, besides me, who carries a TDA pistol, will NOT carry a single stack. I am the only one with a single stack gun. And the only one with a 45 too. But thank you for the generous offer!
I'm working all day tomorrow. Stop on by!
Regards 18DAI
Responding to 18DAI: What an awesome find. Great thread.
Responding to Jeppo: I remember that 6904. Glad it has a good home. You've accumulated a broad collection of third-gens to keep it company.
Jeppo
Member
Not giving up so easily
You know me. I'm nothing if not persistent. If it's gotta be a double stack and capacity is the name of the game...
how 'bout a 30+1 Model 59?
You know me. I'm nothing if not persistent. If it's gotta be a double stack and capacity is the name of the game...
how 'bout a 30+1 Model 59?
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Hey 18DAI,
Can you tell me more about this?
"PS : The same fellow also owned and told me about a handful of Melonited 4506-1s. Made up as LE sales samples. He also owned one of those. Which I also begged him to sell or trade me! "
A buddy of mine has a gun marked 4506 he bought new, that might be melonite. Is there a way to determine this via serial number or product code? He has the box.
Thanks, fuzzy
Can you tell me more about this?
"PS : The same fellow also owned and told me about a handful of Melonited 4506-1s. Made up as LE sales samples. He also owned one of those. Which I also begged him to sell or trade me! "
A buddy of mine has a gun marked 4506 he bought new, that might be melonite. Is there a way to determine this via serial number or product code? He has the box.
Thanks, fuzzy
fuzzymcnab, sorry, but that right there is all he told me. A "handful" which IIRC was the same term he used when telling me about the 4503s.
So, I would assume the same or a similar amount produced. Just Melonited 4506-1s. All black. Forged hammers and triggers, again, IIRC. Wish I knew more. I believe he said they were made up as LE sales samples. For LE reps to show to agencies, to generate interest/orders. None were ordered AFAIK.
This guy was the real deal. He worked at S&W at a high level, for quite awhile. He had some VERY interesting guns that he purchased before he left. Regards 18DAI
So, I would assume the same or a similar amount produced. Just Melonited 4506-1s. All black. Forged hammers and triggers, again, IIRC. Wish I knew more. I believe he said they were made up as LE sales samples. For LE reps to show to agencies, to generate interest/orders. None were ordered AFAIK.
This guy was the real deal. He worked at S&W at a high level, for quite awhile. He had some VERY interesting guns that he purchased before he left.
Regards 18DAI
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18DAI,
Man I could sit and talk to a guy like that all day. The stories must be fascinating.
Thanks for the response. I will have my buddy verify the forged hammers and triggers for starters. Maybe we will never know.
fuzzy
Man I could sit and talk to a guy like that all day. The stories must be fascinating.
Thanks for the response. I will have my buddy verify the forged hammers and triggers for starters. Maybe we will never know.
fuzzy
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