Mystery of the dirty bore

[Grayfox]

This morning I was cleaning my Ruger 77/22. Great rifle, I love it. If I do my part it'll cut one small ragged hole at 25 yards and 1/2 to 1" groups at 50 yards are pretty normal depending on the ammo and what kind of day I'm having.
I bought it used about 10 years ago.
Now here's the thing. Every time I've cleaned it, not once have I ever gotten a completely clean patch out of the bore. No matter how much or how hard I scrub there will always be a bit of dirt on every patch that comes out.
I've tried just about every bore cleaner out there from good old Hoppe's to some really aggressive bore polish. I've used brushes and patches so tight that I've had to beat the rod through the bore. I once spent 6 hours scrubbing this thing. And yet, every patch run through it still comes out with a bit of dirt on it.
I gave up on trying to get this thing completely clean years ago. The bore looks fine. All nice and shiney with no pits anywhere. The rifle shoots great. So I just quit worrying about it.
I was just wondering if anybody here had ever run across this before. Or is this just one of life's mysteries?

 

[Marshall 357]

That is kinda strange!

 

[OKFC05]

If it sits a long time between cleanings or you mix copper plated and lead bullets, it would not surprise me if it took cleaning it every day for 3 or 4 days to get to the totally clean patch state, using something with copper solvent.

If you really want to get it absolutely totally clean, you can use the electric foul out system.

Probably have to shoot it a few fouling shots to get the accuracy to settle down afterwards.

 

[pharmer]

Some folks claim to clean .22's only after the accuracy falls off. I'm not one though. Joe

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Grayfox,

I don't really know, but I usually have approximately the same experience, and don't worry about it, especially with handguns and rimfire rifles. I think that OKFC05's post says about everything that I believe, but what I KNOW is darned near zero.

With my H-S Precision pistol and my Remington 40-XB rifle I follow the steps that H-S Precision prescribes, and they do get clean, but those are pretty agressive cleaners, and I'm not sure they're necessary for other guns, or even the two I'm using them on.

??

You might try www.benchrest.com ; maybe they know.

 

[sjmjax]

I've had similar experiences. Then I realized that by applying solvent with a bronze brush or a patch on a brass jag was what was contaminating my bore and showing up on subseqence patches. The brushes held old contamination and both brush and jag being made of a copper alloy would react with the solvent.

Only started getting clean patches after applying solvent with a fresh patch and plastic cleaning tip.

May not be the problem you're experiencing but might be worth a try.

 

[Gutpile Charlie]

I've experience that too. I've had guns that no matter how often, or how vigorous you clean them...you can also get another dirty patch.

By the same token, I've had ones that I could get "completely" clean.

I was trained in the ways of gun cleaning in the Army, back in the 50's. Actually, some of what I learned may have been counter productive! We poked cleaning rods down the muzzles of M1s till I'm sure we wore all the crown off!

I carried this home with me and still put everything away clean, every time it is used, with the exception of rimfires.

I'm of the school now that they just don't need to be scrubbed into obvlion. I've been told that the wax that is on the lead bullets is a lubricant, and also protects the bore.

I've got a number of rimfires and they get completely cleaned up on the outside, but I generally leave the bores alone for a long period of time.

I have not seen any ill effect or decrease in accuracy or reliability.

 

[RonJ]

I don't worry too much about cleaning .22s.
My Dad's model 100 Marlin sat in the closet at Moms house for over 20 years, with a filthy bore. I brought it home and cleaned it up and the bore is like a mirror. I'm just glad there was no condensation in the barrel, wet powder residue is the real enemy.

 

[oldRoger]

I used to have to deal with a 1st sergeant, who could put a clean patch down a spotlessly clean M1 bore and pull out an absolutely filthy rag. Those were for the most part corrosive primers we were using, a different day.

Evidently some feel barrel cleaning is over done. I have joined that group.
Some of the big name rim fire barrel makers, enjoin you not (or very, very seldom) to clean their barrels.

Wilson Combat. says 500 rounds between cleaning.
Following is a quote from a guy who makes high end 1911 barrels:
Schueman Barrels
My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod
to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very
slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with
a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with
more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets...

 

[dkees]

Had an old guy tell me that with the advent of the "Kleanbore" cartridges more harm was done to a .22 barrel by cleaning, particularly from the muzzle, than by just leaving it alone.

 

[n4zov]

don't worry too much about cleaning .22s.

+1 I very rarely clean the bore of a .22 rimfire. If you are getting 1/2" groups at 50 yards with a rimfire sporter, what will be accomplished if you do manage to get every last vestige of fouling out of the bore? I think that with modern ammunition, bore cleaning is greatly overdone and especially with .22 rimfires.

 

[cowboy117]

Originally posted by n4zov:

don't worry too much about cleaning .22s.

+1 I very rarely clean the bore of a .22 rimfire. If you are getting 1/2" groups at 50 yards with a rimfire sporter, what will be accomplished if you do manage to get every last vestige of fouling out of the bore? I think that with modern ammunition, bore cleaning is greatly overdone and especially with .22 rimfires.

Bingo.

 

[Uncle Larry]

I really, really, really hate to clean the bore on my semi-prehistoric Marlin 60 SS...but when I have to.....Butch's Bore Shine does the trick for me...JMVHO & YMMV..

 

[chriske]

Grayfox, I have had exactly the same experience with several gun/ammo combinations. Like you said, after a while, if the bore looks nice, shiny, clean & the gun shoots OK, I don't worry anymore.