"Neck Turning" 38 Special
- Thread starter kleeber
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Not something I would ever do. Heck I'll bet most loaders don't even trim their .38 cases to a uniform length.
I neck turn my bottleneck rifle brass only to uniform the wall thickness because I use bushings to neck size. This step isn't necessary if you use expander mandrels. Just my preference.
I neck turn my bottleneck rifle brass only to uniform the wall thickness because I use bushings to neck size. This step isn't necessary if you use expander mandrels. Just my preference.
IMO - nothing to be gained with a lot of work/time on your part!
rockquarry
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Never heard of doing and can see no gain. However, that opinion isn't worth much since I've never tried it.
Consider neck turning twenty-five to fifty cases and shoot 25 yard benchrested groups. Do the same with brass that hasn't been neck turned and compare group sizes. You'll have your answer.
Of course, use a handgun of known accuracy capability with a load that has resulted in consistently good accuracy. And don't use mixed or range pickup brass. You'll be wasting your time.
Consider neck turning twenty-five to fifty cases and shoot 25 yard benchrested groups. Do the same with brass that hasn't been neck turned and compare group sizes. You'll have your answer.
Of course, use a handgun of known accuracy capability with a load that has resulted in consistently good accuracy. And don't use mixed or range pickup brass. You'll be wasting your time.
Just another 22 shooter
Member
A solution looking for a problem.
ameridaddy
US Veteran
The only reason I even trim pistol brass to length is to get a consistent crimp. I do that with new brass because I've found even the excellent Starline brass varies quite a bit in length, some even falling outside of SAAMI tolerance ranges. Once done, I don't think I've ever had to redo it.
Bottleneck rifle brass is a whole nuther story, as it moves every firing and sizing.
Bottleneck rifle brass is a whole nuther story, as it moves every firing and sizing.
Trimming brass, is prudent, for roll crimp consistency.
I only trim 45/380 ACP if too long.
Lee's Zero Error Kit for bottlenecks, came with a inside neck reamer.
Purpose was to remove the donut that builds up where the neck
meets the shoulder. Has pros and cons, if you do some research.
I only trim 45/380 ACP if too long.
Lee's Zero Error Kit for bottlenecks, came with a inside neck reamer.
Purpose was to remove the donut that builds up where the neck
meets the shoulder. Has pros and cons, if you do some research.
-BTM-
Member
I think tolerance stack between the chamber, throat and forcing cone would wipe out any potential gain.
Turning necks is a bench rest thing for the most part. Also often needed when necking down.
Turning necks is a bench rest thing for the most part. Also often needed when necking down.
rockquarry
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You may be right. However, from photos I've seen on this forum alone, many people crimp way more than necessary, something that can easily cause accuracy to deteriorate.
Rick H.
Member
On pistol brass I usually only crimp enough to keep the bullet in place when pushing against a loaded round. On rifle brass I use the Lee Factory collet crimp and just "kiss" the neck. The only time I go to a stronger crimp is for hunting loads. Others may feel differently but I use what works for me. Neck turning pistol brass would be a waste of time I think, as there are too many variables for true success.
Rick H.
Rick H.
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What size groups (full cylinder) are you getting at 50 yards? Consistently, like average for 10 consecutive groups.
The revolvers I have seriously tried to get the best accuracy from all had (except for FA) one or two chambers that weren't like the others. This is likely a bigger issue than neck uniformity.
The revolvers I have seriously tried to get the best accuracy from all had (except for FA) one or two chambers that weren't like the others. This is likely a bigger issue than neck uniformity.
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
Apples and oranges. You are really overthinking it.
Do you plan on shooting PPC Competition or something similar or you are just looking a great "plinking" load?
Because in 38 Special the most accurate load was determined sixty (60) years or so ago.
Gunhohulk
Member
Hahaha I was on to you! And to think I was just reading a thread on the Colt forum that was accusing the blue forum of lacking a sense of humor…
EXCELLENT point!! Revolvers or even the Mod 52 won't likely have anywhere near the chamber tolerances of a high quality BR style rifle,
April 1st, Haha! But, there IS something to consider!
Yes, but with all due respect to April 1st, you do raise an interesting point!
Neck turning a straightwall case for production revolvers won’t achieve anything because standard chamber dimensions exceed SAAMI minimum specs to a greater degree than the amount of casewall thickness variation that exists for production brass within a given lot of any decent manufacturer.
Neck turning in benchrest works because chamber neck diameter is cut to a specific minimum dimension which is paired to a matching sizing die. Then, the brass is turned to achieve the minimum amount of expansion neccessary to allow the bullet to leave the case without creating excess chamber pressure.
You are on the right line of thinking, though! (Even if you meant to pull our leg!
)
You can achieve the results you want by carefully selecting a sizing die and case expanding die to work with both your bullet diameter and cylinder throat diameters.
This is very important today because most pistol reloading dies are built to minimum sizes, or less(!), in order to prioritize reliable function, particularly with the smallest diameter bullets for the caliber in question.
So, for 38/357, many dies will undersize your brass for bullets as small as .356” or even .357”. If you seat a cast lead bullet of .358-359” diameter in a case sized like this, you will find that by pulling the bullet from a loaded round, it is no longer the same diameter!
Personally, I have lapped sizing dies to open them up to match my cast bullets.
Example: I bought a set of Redding 44 Special dies, supposedly made specifically for this caliber. The first cases I sized looked like 44-40s! I’m not kidding or exaggerating. The inside case mouth diameter was far too small for even a .429” jacketed bullet without very excessive belling. And, then it tapered wider to the rim.
Redding customer service told me this was within spec!
So, I made up a set of brass laps and slowly opened up the die. Eventually, I got it so the the inside case mouth diameter was a couple thousandth less than the .433” bullets I was casting.
A gentle case belling, using a Lyman M die, worked great.
I was then getting cases that were not being workhardened through sizing and expanding, and my carefully crafted cast bullets were not getting distorted when seated.
And, that last point is crucial!
If your bullets are selected or sized to match your revolver throats, you do not want to mess that up by jamming them into a case neck that is too tight! Notice I said case neck and not case mouth! The latter is a variable easily changed with the expander plug adjustment. But, the former is a function of the tolerances built into the sizing die and the fixed diameter of the straight part of the expander plug.
Make sense?
PS: You guys do know that factory 38 Spl Wadcutter Match ammo is loaded with Wadcutter Specific brass, right? Because hollow base 148 gr wadcutters are not only seated flush but are also extra long because of the displacement of mass caused by the hollow base, this brass has a longer thin, straight wall portion and an abbreviated web near the case head.
Otherwise, seating 148 gr HBWC bullets in standard brass can result in a squashed bullet base. Bye-Bye X-Ring accuracy!
Bullseye shooters make great efforts to procure this brass!
Yes, but with all due respect to April 1st, you do raise an interesting point!
Neck turning a straightwall case for production revolvers won’t achieve anything because standard chamber dimensions exceed SAAMI minimum specs to a greater degree than the amount of casewall thickness variation that exists for production brass within a given lot of any decent manufacturer.
Neck turning in benchrest works because chamber neck diameter is cut to a specific minimum dimension which is paired to a matching sizing die. Then, the brass is turned to achieve the minimum amount of expansion neccessary to allow the bullet to leave the case without creating excess chamber pressure.
You are on the right line of thinking, though! (Even if you meant to pull our leg!
)You can achieve the results you want by carefully selecting a sizing die and case expanding die to work with both your bullet diameter and cylinder throat diameters.
This is very important today because most pistol reloading dies are built to minimum sizes, or less(!), in order to prioritize reliable function, particularly with the smallest diameter bullets for the caliber in question.
So, for 38/357, many dies will undersize your brass for bullets as small as .356” or even .357”. If you seat a cast lead bullet of .358-359” diameter in a case sized like this, you will find that by pulling the bullet from a loaded round, it is no longer the same diameter!
Personally, I have lapped sizing dies to open them up to match my cast bullets.
Example: I bought a set of Redding 44 Special dies, supposedly made specifically for this caliber. The first cases I sized looked like 44-40s! I’m not kidding or exaggerating. The inside case mouth diameter was far too small for even a .429” jacketed bullet without very excessive belling. And, then it tapered wider to the rim.
Redding customer service told me this was within spec!
So, I made up a set of brass laps and slowly opened up the die. Eventually, I got it so the the inside case mouth diameter was a couple thousandth less than the .433” bullets I was casting.
A gentle case belling, using a Lyman M die, worked great.
I was then getting cases that were not being workhardened through sizing and expanding, and my carefully crafted cast bullets were not getting distorted when seated.
And, that last point is crucial!
If your bullets are selected or sized to match your revolver throats, you do not want to mess that up by jamming them into a case neck that is too tight! Notice I said case neck and not case mouth! The latter is a variable easily changed with the expander plug adjustment. But, the former is a function of the tolerances built into the sizing die and the fixed diameter of the straight part of the expander plug.
Make sense?
PS: You guys do know that factory 38 Spl Wadcutter Match ammo is loaded with Wadcutter Specific brass, right? Because hollow base 148 gr wadcutters are not only seated flush but are also extra long because of the displacement of mass caused by the hollow base, this brass has a longer thin, straight wall portion and an abbreviated web near the case head.
Otherwise, seating 148 gr HBWC bullets in standard brass can result in a squashed bullet base. Bye-Bye X-Ring accuracy!
Bullseye shooters make great efforts to procure this brass!
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Pisgah
Member
I'd have to add a neck before I turned it.
Not worth the effort...
Not worth the effort...
