Need a Good J-Frame Load

[ninjatoth]

Just got a 10.8 oz 342PD and I can't get anything to shoot POA with it. I have tried the 110gr+P Critical Defense, and messed with 125 and 158gr XTP's at minimum charge with Titegroup powder as well and every load shoots about 5" low at 5 yards. Anyone have a recommendation for a good .38spl load in a J frame that shoots point of aim? I'm wanting to stick with 110-125gr loads to keep the carry weight down and am willing to try different powders. It's a titanium cylinder so straight lead is out, I need jacketed loads.

 

[38SPL HV]

I too find 125 grs shooting low out of my J-frames. I just stick with 158 gr SWC using 3.5 grs Bullseye per Speer reloading data.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The 125gr is you best bet on a minimum weight bullet if you want to use it for SD .

You might try a box of the 140gr Hornady since they were very accurate in my J frame and the recoil was manageable.

Best light factory load is the Remington 125gr Golden Saber if you want to try store bought ammo and not break the bank and it passed gel test in the 38 special and 9mm.

The light 110gr bullet was only used by the LE force when it was the "Treasury Load" where they felt they had enough going for them. You don't want a minimum load unless that is all that is at hand........... and that is 200 ft/lbs of energy or less !!

 

[rwsmith]

If you are going to have to compromise......

If you are going to have to compromise certain variables, make sure you maximize the ones that will help your cause and minimize the ones that don't.

Keeping a jacketed bullet at low velocity out of the snub may not be the best thing because these bullets are made to perform at higher velocities.

One exception would be the Speer 135 gr. low velocity GDHP.

Also, the faster bullets shoot lower so the right direction would be to go with a heavier bullet.

5" low is an AWFUL lot at 5 yards. I found snub to be harder to master than longer guns and I'm wondering if your shooting could be contributing to that much error. Try starting even closer and use every means that you can to determine how much your sighting/trigger pull may be affecting the POI.

I'm not immune to that myself as I got a Shield back from the factory to increase reliability, but while more reliable, I was shooting 2" low at 7 yds. today when I checked it out.

I think that plated or coated bullets would be ok with the titanium cylinder as neither allows lead contact so that you may not be completely stuck with jacketed only bullets. The HPSWC makes a good defense round.

 

[alwslate]

As I recall those guns were designed to use 125 gr +P JHP ammo. A
gun that light is going to be pretty ammo sensitive as to point of
impact. Try factory 125 gr +Ps or equivalent handloads.

 

[colt_saa]

Welcome to the Forum

My first question is....does the firearm shoot low for all shooters?

If it shoots low just for you, work on your trigger pull. If it shoots low for everyone then I agree with mike campbell. Find the load you want to carry and file the front sight down to where POA and POI match.

Your revolver should have a pinned front sight so returning it to original configuration is no big deal.

BTW, I would not worry too much about the weight issue of carrying heavier projectiles. 158s instead of 125s adds about 1/3 of an ounce to your total weight. I doubt you can tell the difference.

 

[ninjatoth]

Some here have mentioned the Gold Dot 135, or just 135gr so I might give those a try if I can find them. Gold Dot 135gr+P was actually written on the gun's paperwork by the previous owner so maybe there's a reason for that.

Some have said that it could be my trigger pull. I am an experienced double action revolver shooter and I can put 5 rounds in one hole from 5 yards, but that hole is 5" low so I honestly don't think it's me, but when I get a chance i'll try to find someone else to shoot it.

This is a bit of a frustration but at the same time I don't mind it, any excuse to have to buy different bullet weights and powders and more primers and "having" to get away from from the world for an hour to tweak loads is such a "burden"

 

[rockquarry]

Have you had prior experience shooting J-frame guns? Because of their light weight and size, these are difficult guns for many people to master. It often takes a good bit of practice. Firmness and consistency of hold, or lack of same, has a great deal to do with bullet point of impact with these guns.

I'm unfamiliar with lead bullets in titanium cylinders. Is this an S&W recommendation?

 

[ninjatoth]

Have you had prior experience shooting J-frame guns? Because of their light weight and size, these are difficult guns for many people to master. It often takes a good bit of practice. Firmness and consistency of hold, or lack of same, has a great deal to do with bullet point of impact with these guns.

I'm unfamiliar with lead bullets in titanium cylinders. Is this an S&W recommendation?

I'm not familiar with J frames, but for the last 2 years my primary plinking revolver has been the Ruger SP101, and although it's quite a bit bigger, it's still a smallish snubby and I can shoot that POA all day in D/A even with .357 mags.

I am new to the titanium cylinders as well, and from what I have researched in the last week I think it just has something to do with lead sticking to the cylinders or something like that. Kind of a shame because we all know that a lead bullet can be pushed just as fast as a jacketed but with less powder and recoil.

I wonder if hard cast would be out too because that's the only lead that I actually do reload and shoot and there is a lot more variance to work with in lead bullets and i'd have a better shot at finding an accurate load with lead.

 

[Fkimble]

Give the Bayou coated bullets a try. I bet the 158's would work.

 

[ninjatoth]

So I picked up what I hope is better powder than my TiteGroup, some different light weight XTP's to try out at different charges and some decent primers. Let the fiddling begin, any advice?

 

[Davinman]

ill throw my 2 cents into the mix, i have a really old colt snubbie that i dont ever run +P ammo through but as a self defense load i stoke it w/148gr Rainier DEWC's std primers & 5.5gr 800-X. its a top end std pressure load, and shoots very close to point of aim maybe about 2" high. alotta people scoff at WC's for self defense but these gems sure pack a punch even outta a 2'' revolver, and i think the .357" meplat delivers more shock than a nonexpanded hp can deliver. also it will penetrate farther than an expanded hp will. i dont know the speed of this round but if i had to guess id say 800 fps from a 2" bbl. maybe youd like to give this a try? well, like a said at the opening of this post its just my 2 cents, good luck. Oh, and BTW this is a plated bullet so no exposed lead to worry about either...

 

[ninjatoth]

ill throw my 2 cents into the mix, i have a really old colt snubbie that i dont ever run +P ammo through but as a self defense load i stoke it w/148gr Rainier DEWC's std primers & 5.5gr 800-X. its a top end std pressure load, and shoots very close to point of aim maybe about 2" high. alotta people scoff at WC's for self defense but these gems sure pack a punch even outta a 2'' revolver, and i think the .357" meplat delivers more shock than a nonexpanded hp can deliver. also it will penetrate farther than an expanded hp will. i dont know the speed of this round but if i had to guess id say 800 fps from a 2" bbl. maybe youd like to give this a try? well, like a said at the opening of this post its just my 2 cents, good luck. Oh, and BTW this is a plated bullet so no exposed lead to worry about either...

I agree about the wadcutters/semi wadcutters for self defense. Those that scoff don't realize that when those flat edges catch something just right they tear and tumble, and a sideways 158 grainer is way wider than the even best expanding hollowpoint's width.

 

[ninjatoth]

I just made 10 rounds of .38 with 110gr XTP's and 4.6gr of 231(minimum charge) and they too shot 5" low, but the other concern was that there was a lot of unburnt powder in the cylinder chambers and bore and blackened brass. Is this due to a lack of pressure due to not enough powder/pressure?

 

[rockquarry]

You're probably getting under 800 fps muzzle velocity with such a light load and that probably accounts for the dirty burning. Might up the charge considerably (based on book recommendations) and see if the load doesn't clean up.

Using about a maximum (non+P) standard pressure load, a practiced shooter can generally put 140 - 160 grain lead bullets at or very close to point-of-aim at 25 yards using a consistent two-handed hold. A one-handed hold will usually cause bullets to strike several inches higher.

Light bullets (that the sights are not regulated for) may never strike close to point-of-aim, but some experimentation with loads and bullets may yield some sort of compromise situation that you can live with.

I only have one alloy-frame Chief at this time; same rules as the steel frame guns seem to also apply to it; it's just more difficult to shoot well. I don't shoot jacketed bullets in handguns but see no reason why jacketed bullets in the weight range mentioned above wouldn't behave similarly as to bullet impact, given similar velocities.

All this is based on observations and personal experience but I must concede to the occasional exception. Good luck-

 

[ninjatoth]

I upped the charge on those 110 XTP's and it did clean it up a lot, but the accuracy was still the same-perfect windage but 4-5" low at 5 yards, 7 yards, 10 yards etc.

I tried 4.6gr, 5.0gr, 5.2gr and 5.4gr and all were the exact POA.

 

[ninjatoth]

I just loaded up some 125gr XTP's over 4.8gr of 231 and am planning on giving those a try later, but I have a question before I do.

I noticed that I purchased 125gr "FP" XTP's, I have never had those before or even knew they existed, I only knew of just HP XTP. Anyways, are these the same as far as reloading data? The manuals just say "XTP". They look pretty close except one of them seems to have a slightly larger cannelure area, and it's not easy to try to caliper measure from mid cannelure to base to see if the seating depth would be identical. I assume they are to be loaded like any other XTP?

 

[rockquarry]

Which manuals are you referring to?

 

[mikld]

FWIW; My "house gun" load is a 150 gr. cast double ended wadcutter over a stiff (but lower than max.) load of W231. I got 880+ fps average and it shoots to POA in my Taurus 85 @ 10'-20'

 

[ninjatoth]

Which manuals are you referring to?

The Lee handloading book and the Hodgedon online data.