Need some help from the shutterbugs here

nra357mag

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Here's the deal. The Bride has decided to get a digital SLR camera. She probably would want the ability for interchangeable lens. Her main focus is for nature pics (birds, etc) up to about 50 yds in flight. My wife is a Nurse, and a patient of hers has a Panasonic Model "summin or other" that she says takes really nice nature pics. I don't know anything about Panasonic camera's; good, bad, or otherwise.

This is a leap of faith to the tune of around +/- 1K, but she deserves it. The only thing we've had are the $200 "point & shoot" thingies. (unless you consider the twin lens Roloflex I've got ~ damn, I forgot, that thing takes "Film"......... anyone remember that?)

Anyway, given the parameters listed above, any consensus opinion of a good SLR in that $$$$ range that'll be functional for a few years? BTW, she said she was going shopping this Sat.

'Preciate it.....
Best,
David
 
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I recently bought a Nikon kit at Best Buy. It came with a Nikon D3100 DSLR,28-55mm lens, a 55-200mm lens and a decent carry bag for around $800. I've benn very happy with it so far, (about 3 months). My previous experience with digital has been pretty much the same as yours, point and shoot cameras. The Nikon can be used in fully automatic mode or in manual modes similar to the film SLR's that most of us have prior experience with. With the Automatic Mode it's nearly idiot proof. Good for me, LOL. But you do have the options to set your aperture, speed and so on. The lens have Vibration Reduction (VR) and are also Auto Focus (AF). Both of these features can be turned on or off at will. The D-3100 also has Multi Frame shooting capability. In short, it has been everything I needed without going seriously over board.:)
 
Canon 40D
Nothing special, a couple albino rats.
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Some others
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Check out the Leica V-Lux 2. It has only one lens, but it goes from 25-600 mm :eek:, has a real viewfinder as well as the digital display screen on the back, and a bunch of other professional features.

It lists for $849. A 600mm lens alone for a Canon or Nikon would set you back around $8,000.

Here's the link to the Leica website: Leica Camera AG - Photography - V-LUX 2

It will do this, among other things:

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If you decide to let go of that old Rolleiflex, let me know.


Bullseye
 
The final choice will be hers to make.

There is a lot more to be considered here such as how much money do you intend to invest total. You do not want to put a nice camera in the car seat or trunk. To get really sharp photos of birds in flight, she needs a very fast shutter. To enlarge photos she will need quality lens.

All that said, Nikon makes the best glass there is and makes it for many other companies. A good Nikon with interchanable lens will make a great camera.

If you can find a D3 Nikon, you are going to spend pretty much about $5,000 with a couple lens. But you can get a nice D300 for about a third of that. The shutter speeds will be close to the D3 and it will give nice photos.

I would also suggest looking on eBay for some great used cameras. You can save yourself a ton of money and can get everything that came with a seldom used camera and the accesssories the original buyer paid for with their purchase. I bought a D2 there for $400 when they were selling for $2200.

Also, buying a Nikon, as well as other brands, allows you to slowly add the lens you want to buy and can use those lens on the next camera body you upgrade with.

I have used my Nikon prints in courts that have been blown up to wall size and did not get much distortion. For normal enlargement prints to place on the wall, the Nikon photos are the sharpest there is out there.

No matter what you buy, get the best quality and highest speed card you can find for that camera. Then buy two more of them. She will understand why if she takes many photos or continous framing.
 
check out ken rockwell's site for all you ever wanted to know about dslr's. The difference between canons and nikons is pretty minimal (canons seem to be more popular now because their medium grade lenses are cheaper). Basically, the lenses that come with the cameras in the packages are fine, but also where the most effective (and most expensive) upgrade will be. After that, it is up to the photographer to pick the shots and know how to work the basic functions of the camera to get a great shot.
 
I'd suggest sticking with either Canon or Nikon. As established SLR companies, they have the back end to support their cameras and lenses in the long run.

Aside from that, it really comes down to "what feels better in my hand" at any given price point. Of course, once you've got one and are invested in glass, you're relatively stuck there...
 
I realize that most people have never had any experience with a Leica because they are so expensive. This one, the V-Lux 2, is not, and is going to give everyone a real run for their money. Made in Solm, Germany Leica is right up there with Rollei, Hasselblad, and Zeiss. I've actually worn out Nikons, and I thoroughly disagree that they "make the best glass in the world." The Germans do that.

Weight. Long lenses of both the Nikon and Canon persuasions are very heavy. And the good lenses are even more so.

I realize that the familiarity factor is important to people, but I really do encourage a little out of the box thinking. It would take at least three Nikon or Canon lenses to duplicate the capability of this one Leica. As to being an "established SLR company," Leica's been around for about 90 years. :) By the way, if you read what Ken Rockwell has to say on this point, you'll see that he regards Leica lenses as far superior to anything Nikon or Canon makes.

Consider it for the same reason you hang on to that old Rolleiflex -- top of the line hand-made German quality through and through.

Good luck!


Bullseye
 
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I'm going to suggest you blow $275 first and get her something else.

A Casio Exilim FH25. Google it.

Not an SLR, but the most amazing under-$10,000 camera I have ever used. 40 frames per second full-resolution stills. High speed video that plays back at 1/4 or 1/8 speed, with good resolution. Shutter speed up to 1/40,000 of a second. Zoom lens with range of 26mm-520mm (35mm equivalent). FLASH pictures at up to 5FPS for 10 shots.

A BUNCH of other great features, especially for nature photography. Get it for her and if she doesn't like it, I'll give you $250 for it as a spare.

Risk $25 + shipping to save $700+.
 
Most professional nature photographers choose Nikon or Canon for a reason - they have the best "system" of bodies and lenses. If you look around at photographers at any major event (sports or whatever) you will see 99% Nikon or Canon. Personally I like Nikon because I've been shooting with a Nikon for 50+ years - lenses that I bought back in the 60's still work fine on my D700 (although they are manual focus.)

That said, I don't think that you can put together a Nikon or Canon "Birds in Flight" kit for $1K - so one of the other cameras mentioned might be a good choice.

Here's a couple of mine with Nikon gear:

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I'm going to suggest you blow $275 first and get her something else.

A Casio Exilim FH25. Google it.

+1 on the Casio EX-FH25.

I'm a die-hard Canon fan and most of my lenses have an "L" suffix, but bought a FH25 for the Slo-Mo (1,000fps) Video feature and Hi-speed burst modes. I'm simply amazed at the bang for the buck Casio managed to pack in such a modest priced package.

The 26-520mm (35mm equivalency) f2.8-4.5 lens is surprisingly sharp throughout its range and with a 10.1 Megapixel sensor you can enlarge and crop considerably without visible loss of resolution.

Here's an example consistent with this thread:
YouTube - EXILIM EX-FH25 ????? ?240fps? ?????

And one consistent with the Forum: :)
YouTube - Casio EX-FH25 AR-15 .22 cal firing 420fps

Except for not having a AR-15-22, I thick I can duplicate the second one, but I can only dream about doing anything that even approaches the first. :o

Of course, I've got guns that are capable of shooting far better than I can shot them, so I've been desensitized in such matters. :D

John
 
Another thing with the Nikon or Canon system is you don't need to spend a fortune for a lens that will sit in the bag 95% of the time. If you know you are going out to take some dedicated pictures you can rent the lenses for the cameras for the period of time you need them. I did that for an airshow a few years ago. I got the latest and greatest lens for my Nikon D60 and took some very nice pictures.

My kind of soaring birds.

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I initially bought this camera to learn digital photography on but I think it is a keeper.

bob
 
Like many others I can give a strong recomendation for either Nikon or Canon. However, I'll go a bit off track and discuss the differences and features that go hand in hand with the size of the image sensors that are available on the broad spectrum of digital cameras on the market.

Most point and shoot cameras use a rather small image sensor, in some cases smaller than the old 8mm movie frame. Which means it's about the size of the fingernail on your little finger. Pluses for this choice is that a small sensor allows the use of a very compact lens. Note, on some models you may see a dual listing for the focal length, the actual focal length and the 35mm equivalent. So, you may see a zoom lens listed as 6-48mm/35-280. That first set of number is the true focal length and it indicates how small the image sensor is in relation to a 35mm film frame. Why does this matter? It's pretty simple, when you try and pack 10mb of resolution onto one of these tiny sensors the individual sensor sites become very very tiny. This means that noise produced by that tiny sensor sight goes way up. Bottomline, these cameras work well when there is a lot of light, however in low light wothout a flash they produce lots of image noise or "grain".

Next up in the chain of image sensor size is the 4/3 format. Panasonic, Olympus, Minolta, Sony, and other 3'rd tier SLR's are using this format on their consumer models and it's not a bad choice of the resolution is held to 8mp or less. However, at 10mp or more it will be noisy in low light when compared to results from a camera with similar resolution using a larger sensor. One plus is that the 4/3 format permits the use of lenses featuring a focal length about 1/2 that required for a 35mm frame size. That means that the lenses can be about 1/2 the size needed for a 35mm camera. However, if a traditional mirror is employed for the viewfinder, there will be problems in achieving a true super wide angle perspective. Basically, you'll probably be limited to a 24mm equivalent in 35mm terms.

Next up is what Nikon refers to as the DX format. Both Canon and Nikon offer an array of cameras that use a 16 X 24mm image sensor and so did Fuji. It's is an old compromize that was once the Standard for Digital SLR cameras and cameras with these sensors provide an excellent balance between image quality and noise production. With just a bit of post shooting editing you can get very good clean images using an ISO setting as high as 3200, which means that you can shoot by candle light if you have the right lens. Lenses for this format will typically be labeled with the True focal length, which means if you want to know the 35mm equivalent you'll have to multiply the focal length by a factor of 1.5 for Nikon and 1.6 for Canon. Since the widest available lens on the market was 10mm last time I looked this means that your widest equivalent is 15mm, which is pretty darned wide. At the other end, your 300mm lens will be equivalent to a 450mm lens on a 35mm format. Cameras using this sensor size can range in price from below 400 dollars (body only) to as much as about 1800 dollars at the high end. There are also multitudes of Kit packages available and they are a good value for the money. Years ago Kit lenses were distinctly inferior to the high end lenses in terms of image quality but today that is no longer the case. However, those inexpensive Kit lenses are somewhat fragile and won't take the abuse that a lens costing 5 times more will, so take care not to drop them and if you do, just throw it away and buy another. BTW, I have a 18-70mm Kit lens that came with my D70 that actually provides DISTINCTLY SHARPER images than my 50mm f1.4 Nikkor, a lens that was once considered the "gold standard" for image quality.

Further up the chain you have what many refer to as "full Frame" cameras. These cameras feature an image sensor that measures 24 x 36mm, the same as the frame size for 35mm film. Cost also goes way way up. Haven't looked lately but at one time the lowest buy in for Full Frame was a 2700 dollar Canon and right now the top end is aroud 8000 dollars for just the body. BTW, Canon was first to offer Full Frame and Nikon took years to catch up, however today both brands are battling for the Full Frame market and offers several different models using this sensor size. One plus is that in the "low" resolution 12-14 mp models the low light capability is simply astounding, some offer boosted ISO settings as high as 128,000. Unfortunately, light meters can't operate in the available dark these sensors can shoot at so shooting in the dark requires a trial and peek approach. I'll also note that the high resolution Full Frames don't offer the super high ISO capability, at 24mp or higher resolutions noise becomes an issue due to the smaller sensor sites. Nikon's 5000 dollar D3 will shoot in the dark, the 8000 dollar D3x won't, however the D3x can approach Kodachrome 25 for image quality.

Even further up the chain are the Medium format digitals, which used a 36 x 48 mm image sensor and offer resolutions that may hit 60 mp. As for cost, think a very nice new car. At some point I expect that we will see image sensors as large as 60 X 60mm and resolutions of 120mp or perhaps more, however these will require a NASA scale budget for at least 10 years.

Now that's been covered, my recomendation would be a 10-12mp camera in the Nikon or Canon consumer line. I would strongly urge you to avoid the temptation for more resolution than this because you'll see a drop in image quality in low light settings. In addition 12mp will produce a 16 x 24 inch print that approaches Gallery Quality if the post production has been done well. Without any post production you can get an 11 X 17 inch print that you can hang on your wall with pride. Finally, lenses that you can actually purchase do NOT offer enough resolution to take advantage of more than 12mp on a 16 x 24mm image sensor. In order to gain the resolution needed to match a higher resolution on this sized sensor requires Lab Grade specialty lenses once used for making Microfilm.

PS; my camera kit used to consist of 2 Nikon F2sb's with MD-2 motor drives and about 10 Primes ranging from 20mm to 300mm. That bag weighed on at 24 lbs. Today my camera kit consists of a Nikon D300 with the 18-70 and a 70-300 VR and probably weighs less than 5 lbs. It's taken a heck of a load off my shoulder and if I anticipate a need for a superwide I substitute a Sigma 12-24mm for the 70-300. One big plus for the D300 is that it does allow me to use all those lenses that I aquired for my ancient F2's, even my old Nikkor H 50mm f2 which is actually the sharpest 50mm Nikkor ever made, don't know why the 1.4 was ever considered the "gold standard" it never was that good.
 
I can't take a decent picture with anything but a DSLR.

I've got a Canon Digital Rebel Xt. There have been quite a few upgrades since that model.

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Whatever you decide check with KEH. They are in GA and deal in new and used kits. Most of my shots are for computer use. In that case metapixils matter little. My Nikon, a 2.8MP, in 2000 cost over 4 grand. In 2009 I gave less than $500.00 and I am able to use lenses that have been around since the Nikons of 1970. Digital grew so fast that a body would hardly be released and it was out moded. KEH is trustworthy and has a huge inventory. I have no connection with them other than admiration. Their sales staff is on top of things too. Attached is a snapshot of a flood of a few years ago. The lens was an old Nikon series E lens in early morning light. 2.8MP D1-H
 

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