Need to start education on 32 Reg. Police

[RalphK22]

Just got home with this .32 Reg. Police. It is by far the oldest and roughest Smith in my collection. It is tight and the bore is clean,but she is filthy. This is my 2nd Smith in 32 long, I have a 32 hand ejector I picked up a couple of years ago and my nephew and I have had a lot of fun with it. So I figured two 32's twice the fun and I don't have to worry about it getting marked up, my nephew being 12 years old.
Any way I enjoy learning about the guns I own and since this is as rough as it is, I plan to use it as a learning tool. That is to say I may learn to completely strip it down. Maybe toy with the finish as I doubt it is original. I am going to have a lot of questions and hope to learn from you here.
The serial number is 457802, so about when would it have been manufactured?

 

[DCWilson]

About 1926-27.

The .32 Regulation Police is the square butt version of the .32 Hand Ejector. Rather than creating a separate square butt frame, the factory instead created oversize wood stocks that lengthened and enlarged the basic round-butt frame. Part of the fitting process involved cutting a shallow notch on the lower half of the backstrap. A wide spot of wood mated with this notch. Since the oversize RP stocks covered the butt, where serial numbers were stamped on the round butt guns, revolvers that were intended to be marketed as RPs had their serial numbers stamped on the forestrap above the strain screw. This was also done for the I-frame target revolvers that came with the even larger two-screw extension stocks.

Available RP barrel lengths in .32 caliber were the same as the basic Hand Ejector -- 3.25, 4.25. and 6.

There was also a .38 Regulation Police chambered in .38 S&W, but these were five-shooters and were available with four-inch barrels. They actually had a "Regulation Police" rollmark on the barrels that the .32 RPs never had.

That's about it. RP production in both calibers began in late March or early April of 1917.

 

[H Richard]

While the nickle finish may be rough, the grips reveal the gun wasn't used a lot. Those grips look very good for their age. Those grips are difficult to find, and have some value by themselves. While the finish is peeling, I bet it shoots pretty good. Check out you-tube, for disassemble instructions of S&W revolvers. While there are differences in the different sizes and models, the mechanics of most S&W revolvers are very similar. Be sure to get a "good" set of gunsmith screwdrivers before you start. Good luck and have fun.

 

[RalphK22]

Thanks, guys, I had trouble keeping my train of thought on my first post, my dad, who is the same age as this revolver, decided to sit down an talk to me while I was typing. .....................Crypes............. I just got a call and have to go, I'll try to post more tomorrow. Any way she cleaned up pretty good, have a look. Talk to you later.

 

[hsguy]

RP's are neat guns. Only the 38 SW variation are marked "Regulation Police". The rebated backstrap is also an interesting feature. Here are two pre-war guns, the top in 32 and bottom on in 38 SW. I also included a photo of the grip-frame showing the rebate and a shot of the grips.

 

[Green Frog]

RalphK22, congratulations on discovering one of the great "fun guns" of the '20s and '30s (although S&W probably didn't intend them to get that title!) First, as to finish, I would agree that it is probably refinished since the trigger and hammer are nickeled instead of case colored as seen on the originally nickeled guns. Second, those stocks (grips) seem much too nice to be original to the gun... is there a sign of the serial number penciled anywhere inside the right grip? I'm thinking they may also be added later, and as such, their biggest value (aside from covering the grip frame ) is as separate items... you might want to use some after market grips on the gun to "knock around" and conserve those very nice old grips. My RPs of that age get a diet of 100 gr lead SWCs in front of a mild load of BullsEye powder (just over the minimum starting load from my manual) and seem to thrive on it. Congratulations again and I think you have the right plan... take it out and enjoy it!!

Froggie

 

[RalphK22]

Thanks all for your replies. Some more about this handgun. I picked it up at a gunshow yesterday, looked at it 4 times before I finally broke down and bought it. Besides it being a .32 S&W Long cal., the grips/stocks caught my eye too. I know they are some what hard to come by and thought it plus in the purchase. I can find no markings on the grips and was not sure if they followed the practice of numbering the grips to the frame at that time. The seller stated the revolver had been replated in silver not nickel, to which I nodded and smiled. On later S&W's there would be a N on the grip frame and the cylinder, there is a very small N on the right grip frame near the grip locator/ positioning pin and no N on the cylinder that I can find, might this indicate original finish was nickel? Also the extractor is blued as on later S&Ws. I paid $174 with tax and back ground check, don't know if that was good or bad, but I figured I'll get my funs worth out of it.

I had the side plate off and everything looks great. I, for now, flushed it out well and put it back together. it didn't seem too gunked up. The cylinder was another story. The oil had gummed up to the point the cylinder would not spin free. The knob at the end of the ejector rod keeps you from removing the cylinder from the yoke and I assume it must be unscrewed to do so. If so which direction is it threaded? I know to put empty cases in the cylinder when doing this. Also there is a, I guess, a hammer block milled into the side plate much different than the later S&Ws. Any comments on that?

I will be reloading for this revolver. The load I am using now for my 32 hand ejector, going from memory here, is 1.9 or 2 grains of bullseye under a 98 gr. LRN bullet. I assume that will be fine for this revolver as well. I bought a Lee tumble lube bullet mould, don't remember what weight bullet it throws, and plan to work up a load for them. I have reloaded since my teens, but never cast my own bullets. The .32 S&W long just seems like a really cheap and fun way to learn so much. I have been digging out spent SWC at the pistol range for my lead source. Let me know if you have any pet loads.

I forgot to add a question concerning what I assume is an hammer block. There is an "hitch" when squeezing the trigger in single action, much like can be felt in a series 80 1911 due to the firing pin block. Is that what I am feeling, the hammer block lifting?

 

[DCWilson]

In single action, the hammer block is already out of the way when the gun is cocked, having been pushed aside by the rising hand. Any "hitch" in the trigger release in single action cannot be the safety block mechanism. It might be a spot of corrosion inside the trigger return slide that is catching on a coil of the internal spring. I have had a couple of older guns with that problem. If by "hitch" you mean the hammer is released and you instantaneously feel a little kick in the trigger, that is probably the double action sear kissing the end of the upper trigger arm as the hammer falls. A little more cleaning or lubrication would probably take care of that. When this condition is at its worst, the sear can actually force the trigger forward as the hammer falls, resulting in a misfire because so much of the hammer momentum was wasted on moving the trigger.

You do need to disassemble the cylinder complex to get it moving smoothly. The ejector rod uses normal threads -- tighten right, loosen left. Reverse threading on ejector rods did not appear until after WWII.

Get a piece of leather to keep from marring the metal, and pinch it on the ejector rod as close to the cylinder as you can get. Don't really put a lot of energy into the pliers or channel-locks you are using; the ejector rod has thin walls and can be crushed if you put too much muscle into it. An alternative is to clamp the ejector rod in the chuck of a drill press (pad it!) and use your hands to turn the cylinder free. You will need to clean both the center pin and the channel in which it runs, and the outer surface of the yoke shaft on which the cylinder turns. There is a lot of surface for oil to dry on in this cluster of parts. But you will be pleased once you get them all cleaned up and relubricated.

If you haven't taken a yoke and cylinder apart before, pay attention to the orientation and position of the parts -- there are two coil springs to put back in the right way, and the center pin works only one way. And remember to put the cylinder back on the yoke before you screw the ejector rod back in. I can't tell you how many times I have made that mistake.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

Hello Ralph,
Did you get that at the Carlisle show? If not, there was one just like it for about the same price, and "silver plated" too! The same dealer had a very nice, blued Regulation Police but it was a little too rich for my tastes.
Last year I bought an old M&P 32-20 with a very similar refinished look to it. It was so poor that I could scratch it off with a finger nail. Like yours, mine had the hammer and trigger refinished as well. I've been told that at one time, cheap, do-it-yourself, nickle refinish kits were available.
Regardless, looks like you got a good little shooter at a good price! It cleaned up nicer than I thought possible, especially the stocks.
I'm not too familiar with the internal workings of S&W but I can tell you that the extractor rod on all older S&W's had right hand threads. This was changed to left hand threads around 1960.
John

 

[Green Frog]

I'm glad David got on with gunsmithing advice before me. Just do what he says and you'll be fine. I will tell you that I got that "hitch" in the cocking action of my RP one time when the strain screw was backed out waaay too far and allowed the mainspring to contact the inside of the grip frame and drag just enough as the curve reaches its max.

I will say that the reload you quote is the exact same one I've been using. My miniature niece and her BFF friend both used it with good results for their training shots in their CCW class yesterday, niece with a 3" Model 30-1 and friend with my 6" RP (vintage ca 1935.) Noise and recoil were not an issue for either girl.

Froggie

 

[RalphK22]

Thanks Dave, The hitch I am feeling is as I squeeze the trigger in single action, like the sear needs honed. It is not a crisp break as I am used to in a Smith, more like a Ruger. The more I clean the smoother things are getting, probably will work it's way out. I'll let you know how I make out with the cylinder.
John, Yehp got it at Carlisle. Was told he wanted $500 for the other Reg. Police. As I said, I really just wanted something to play with and learn on and she is cleaning up pretty good and mechanically she is in fine shape. Really didn't see much else at the show to trip my trigger, too much plastic.

 

[pokute]

Since you're going to be reloading for it, I suppose you're going to shoot it too... A wonder-sight will make the experience a lot more satisfying:

http://inferno.slug.org/~phil/revolvers/wonder-sight.jpg

Best $40 you'll ever spend. It's designed so that it can sit low enough to work with the original, unmodified front sight. Attachment is easy, just remove the screw near the hammer and screw in the wonder-sight in it's place. The elevation adjustment is intentionally tight to keep it zeroed, it's sort of a "press-fit", so don't file it out!. Mine hasn't shifted a bit after 800 rounds.

 

[PMRet]

This was my grandfather's .32 RP, shipped in January 1924.

 

[RalphK22]

Well I disassembled the cylinder and cleaned up all the crud and corruption and it spins nice and free. I also removed the side plate and all the lock work and cleaned and lubed everything, although everything looked really good.

It was quit rewarding disassembling and reassembling the the lock works, it was something I was very hesitant to do on my nicer S&W's. I found it to be rather simple and it helped me to understand how everything works. However, I got carried away, enjoying how I smoothed everything up, played too hard, dry fired too much and snapped the hammer nose. Looks like I'm in for a search to find a replacement. Any ideas where to look? Yes, I know I shouldn't have been dry firing it with out snap caps, I was even scolded by my 12 year old nephew.

 

[DCWilson]

Parts: Try Dave Chicoine at Old West Gunsmith. Another place is Poppert's Gun Parts in PA. You can easily find both of them with Bing or Google. They both have web sites and list some of the parts they have available for different models. But you will probably want to call.

 

[Green Frog]

You might also try GunBroker... somebody had a Regulation Police they had parted out, and the hammer was still listed the last time I checked.

Froggie

 

[Hondo44]

Hello Ralph,
I'm not too familiar with the internal workings of S&W but I can tell you that the extractor rod on all older S&W's had right hand threads. This was changed to left hand threads around 1960.
John

John, just FYI lest someone read this and break off an ejector rod, I and J frames are different than K and N frames which were right hand thread until 1960. I frames, except for the earliest post war models with large knobs, were left hand thread by the time they had straight ejector rods c. 1950. J frames were all left hand thread from their introduction in 1950.

 

[Hondo44]

RalphK22,

Nice little prize and great price. You did a great job cleaning it up.

Worn nickel always looks better with the brown corrosion/worn thru spots polished 'white'. Also Flitz or Mothers automotive wheel polish does a great job getting all those little hairline scratches off of the nickel.

 

[pokute]

John, just FYI lest someone read this and break off an ejector rod, I and J frames are different than K and N frames which were right hand thread until 1960. I frames, except for the earliest post war models with large knobs, were left hand thread by the time they had straight ejector rods c. 1950. J frames were all left hand thread from their introduction in 1950.

I had a strange thing happen at the range yesterday. I abruptly started getting wild strays and keyholing with my 1919 32 HE... It turned out that the ejector rod had come loose, and was not locking, yet the timing on the gun was "good enough" for the gun to fire. Screwing the rod down tight fixed the problem. I'm considering putting a bit of loctite on it because it unscrews very easily. I should have taken a picture of the tight group of keyholes... 8 inches high and 6 inches right!

And it just occurred to me, the frame could be messed up now as a result of those rounds entering the breech cockeyed. Sigh.

 

[Hondo44]

I had a strange thing happen at the range yesterday. I abruptly started getting wild strays and keyholing with my 1919 32 HE... It turned out that the ejector rod had come loose, and was not locking, yet the timing on the gun was "good enough" for the gun to fire. Screwing the rod down tight fixed the problem. I'm considering putting a bit of loctite on it because it unscrews very easily. I should have taken a picture of the tight group of keyholes... 8 inches high and 6 inches right!

And it just occurred to me, the frame could be messed up now as a result of those rounds entering the breech cockeyed. Sigh.

pokute,

How was the accuracy after you tightened the ejector rod? I assume it went back to normal. Don't worry, you did not mess up the frame. These little guns are tougher than one might think.

I would highly caution against using loctite however. You will want to remove it some day for cleaning. Just remove all oil from the threads on the rod and in the ejector star shaft with alcohol. Then screw it down good and tight with well padded pliers and you should be good to go. Check it occasionally when shooting.