New bill introduced in Congress to stop ATF ruling on pistol braces

gdogs, you missed his point: that 'SBR's should never have been created as a specially restricted category in the first place.

Nobody "got away" with anything. The ATF repeatedly, in writing, said that 'braces' were legal, and also said that you could shoulder them. The market for braces would never have expanded to the extent it did without that approval.

I didn't miss it, I just don't think trying to overturn a 90 year old law is going to be successful. Doesn't matter if it is right or wrong, it is the law and has been for nearly a century.

The ATF repeatedly said... so? When they repeated said that bumpstocks were machineguns were they right (no they weren't)? You all want to have it both ways - happy to go along with whatever they say as long as they agree with you.

Yes, the ATF is indirectly responsible for many, many, many people buying braced pistols, and now they are trying to make it right by giving you options with how to deal with your illegal SBR's. Every single person I know that bought one of these did so simply because it was an SBR without the paperwork... well guess what - here comes the paperwork. I think a lot of us knew this day was coming.

Read all of the comments and responses in the rule - you'll see exactly how the justice department is going to pick your defense apart if you refuse to comply.
 
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This is all I see in your responses, and all I can say is... wow. :confused:

I suppose beating my head against the wall while screaming it isn't right isn't how I want to spend my days. By all means try and get it overturned, but I won't waste a second of my time on something that isn't going to happen. Maybe I'm just old enough to know when something is a losing proposition, and fighting the Constitutionality of the NFA is exactly that. Like I said, good luck, you're going to need it.
 
I suppose beating my head against the wall while screaming it isn't right isn't how I want to spend my days. By all means try and get it overturned, but I won't waste a second of my time on something that isn't going to happen. Maybe I'm just old enough to know when something is a losing proposition, and fighting the Constitutionality of the NFA is exactly that. Like I said, good luck, you're going to need it.


For your enlightenment.

U.S. appeals court strikes down ban on bump stocks | Reuters
 
Y
es, the ATF is indirectly responsible for many, many, many people buying braced pistols, and now they are trying to make it right by giving you options with how to deal with your illegal SBR's. Every single person I know that bought one of these did so simply because it was an SBR without the paperwork... well guess what - here comes the paperwork. I think a lot of us knew this day was coming.

It's that way with a lot of things related to firearms, not just what the ATF decides to do this week. Stevie Wonder could have seen this one coming.

I saw mag restrictions coming in this state about 5 years ago and limited my pistol purchases to single stack pistols that used <10 rd magazines. The restrictions went into effect last summer.

The next thing that will happen here is semi-auto rifle restrictions. Maybe this year but for sure in two years. Am I going out and buy one just so I dispose of it in a year or two like a bump stock or pistol with a brace. Probably not. Swimming upstream maybe?
 
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Don't remember ever saying that the bumpstock ban was right, legal, or incapable of being overturned. Braces and bumpstocks are two completely different issues. You can compare them if you want, but one has nothing to do with the other.




Thank God the us appeals court disagrees with you and says the ATF and president can not create new gun laws. Congress does.
 
Thank God the us appeals court disagrees with you and says the ATF and president can not create new gun laws. Congress does.

I don't think that you understand my position at all.

The ATF clearly doesn't have the authority to redefine what a machine gun is. The 5th Circuit agrees.

The ATF also doesn't have the authority to redefine a type of stock as a brace. If you use it to fire from the shoulder, then it is a stock - plain and simple.
 
I don't think that you understand my position at all.

The ATF clearly doesn't have the authority to redefine what a machine gun is. The 5th Circuit agrees.

The ATF also doesn't have the authority to redefine a type of stock as a brace. If you use it to fire from the shoulder, then it is a stock - plain and simple.

The proposed rule redefines what a rifle is, so the 5th Circuit case is directly on point.
 
I didn't miss it, I just don't think trying to overturn a 90 year old law is going to be successful. Doesn't matter if it is right or wrong, it is the law and has been for nearly a century.

The ATF repeatedly said... so? When they repeated said that bumpstocks were machineguns were they right (no they weren't)? You all want to have it both ways - happy to go along with whatever they say as long as they agree with you.

Yes, the ATF is indirectly responsible for many, many, many people buying braced pistols, and now they are trying to make it right by giving you options with how to deal with your illegal SBR's. Every single person I know that bought one of these did so simply because it was an SBR without the paperwork... well guess what - here comes the paperwork. I think a lot of us knew this day was coming.

Read all of the comments and responses in the rule - you'll see exactly how the justice department is going to pick your defense apart if you refuse to comply.

The issue here isn't whether pistol braces are SBRs or not. The issue is ATF overstepping and legislating on behalf of Congress in violation of the Constitution.

It is an issue that should concern everyone. The ATF used its authority (under Chevron Deference and long settled court rulings and established legal precedent) during the Obama Administration over a decade ago to say that bump stocks, braced pistols and forced reset triggers were legal and did not fall under the NFA.

Then in the past administration the ATF as an executive branch agency reversed their bump stock position when the president told them to do so, and in the current administration reversed its position on FRT and pistol braces for similar politically motivated reasons.

In doing so the ATF has both violated federal administrative law by once again using Chevron Deference to reverse its own original re-interpretation. However, given the clear criminal penalties for non compliance, it did so illegally by violating the rule of lenity. The rule of lenity must be applied prior to and in place of Chevron deference when criminal penalties result from a reinterpretation.

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In other words, we have an executive branch agency violating administrative law and the constitution by infringing on the right of congress to make laws.

In the intervening 10 years between the ATF determination that bump stocks and pistol braces were legal, and their flip flop on that opinion, Congress had the ability to effectively disagree. At any time Congress could have redefined the definitions in the NFA of 1934 by passing legislation that changed or clarified those definitions and them illegal and or classified them as NFA items.

Congress still has the right to do so if it so chooses, and we all know that isn't likely to happen any time soon.

However in its pistol brace ruling the ATF has substantially and significantly expanded and modified the relevant definitions in a manner that is not supported by the statutory language. ATF could do that if and only if:
- the original statutory language was silent on the issue (which is questionable when they are revising a fundamental definition);
- the revision is a "reasonable construction" of the statute (which is again questionable in this case; and
- the revision does not place persons at risk of facing criminal (as opposed to civil) penalties.


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If we say it's ok for ATF do exceed it's powers in this manner, we are also saying it's ok for every other executive branch agency to do the same.

If we do that we might as well wad the Constitution up and throw it away.
 
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