"New" Concealed Carry (.450 SMC/45 ACP)"The Grizzly"

[YkcorCal]

My dream snubnose concealed carry S&W would be a 2 5/8" S&W Performance Center designed from the ground up for the new DoubleTap 450 SMC load (and capable of handiling the .45 Super) cut for full Moon Clips, Chamfered Chambers that could also shoot .45 ACP. I would be in "hog" heaven. 450 SMC – Doubletap Ammunition

Combat Sights (Front and Rear) for use at night and low light conditions for both Police and Civilian Self Defense under adverse conditions! SIGN ME UP!!!

 

[colt_saa]

Smith & Wesson revolvers have been capable of safely chambering and firing the 45 SUPER for decades.

My 4" 625 loaded with 230 grain JHP 45 SUPER ammunition was my goto pin gun for more than a dozen years. That Winchester projectile chronographed out of my 4" revolver right at the 1100 FPS mark

The powerful 45 SUPER threw pins off that table with Great Authority and the V-comp put those expanding gasses to good use keeping my muzzle rise down for rapid shots on the next pins down the table

I think my Behlert Model 25 snubby would probably fill your wish even though the barrel is only 2 3/8" long

If the Model 25 would fill your needs, Lew Horton did a run of 3" Model 25s back around 2006 or 2007 on the square butt, 4 screw Heritage series frames. They were available in blue or nickel. The Factory nickel of that era was about the best I have ever seen

This is for folks that might be reading this thread as I am sure that YkcorCal knows the 450 SMC is a copy of the 45 SUPER cartridge. It allows ammunition manufacturers the ability to not pay the royalties for using the name 45 SUPER. The difference between the two cartridges is just the primer size.

 

[YkcorCal]

I absolutely LOVE my Custom Apex Tactical S&W 625 JM 4" as It is my pride and JOY! I would not sell it at any price! I have heard from many others that the S&W 625 will handle the .45 Super.

Actually, colt saa, I was not aware of that; so thanks for the Information.

No, I'm just looking for a snubby concealed carry "Performace Center" quality gun to go with my S&W 625 and Springfield Armory XD .45 auto to make it a fearsome threesome because I live in a realatively high crime rate area in northern Los Angeles county and it is rapidly geting worse. I'm 72, my wife is 77 and I can still handle my handguns. I have an Ithaca DeerSlayer III dedicated slug gun I plan to trade toward another handgun as a New York reload can be faster than trying to reload your gun. My wife can no longer help as she has such severe gout in her hands she can not use anything but a .22LR and could not reload that; she is very fearful. I am really the sole protector and here in California we do not have the California Constitutional right to self defense and the criminals know it!!!


Here is info on my gun from when I bought it:

Smith & Wesson 625-8 Apex Custom 45 ACP/4"

Custom worked 625-8: Full trigger and action job consisting of the Apex Evolution IV parts kit and a level IV ICORE action work, chamfered cylinder, Hi-Vis replacement front sight and fully adjustable rear sight, bead blasted stainless finish, mooning and de-mooning tools, competition moon clip holder, Houge grips, Pachmayr grips, and smooth walnut JM grips, two polymer holsters, a USPSA moon clip rig.

 

[YkcorCal]

Oh, and why don't I just move out of California? Well, my wife and I have gone through our life's saving's on doctors and now live in a 500 sq. ft senior's apt. in a senior's apt. complex living on Social Security as that is all we have left. We don't have the money to move down the street unless it is to live in our car. So we are for now better off than many out here. The crime is getting worse and worse and if the rents keep going up we don't know what we will do. Hopefully, the youngest son of my wife will take us in.

I have been selling all my other guns to get down to just the bare necessities, i.e. something that shoots .45 ACP.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

According to this Shooting Times article the 450 SMC has a higher max pressure (32K psi) than the 45 Super (~28K psi) also.

It would be nice if they SAAMI standardize the cartridge but I doubt that will happen.

The .450 SMC: A Potent & Practical Defensive Cartridge | An Official Journal Of The NRA

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What our 45ACP revolvers need is just a little more powder capacity.

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45WSM




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[YkcorCal]

My perfect concealed carry .45

What my idea is a revolver in stainless steel with a profile similar to a S&W 329 Night Guard only with adjustable combat night sights in .450 WSM/.45ACP. Performance Center with a non-fluted cylinder and I personally would prefer hammerless double action only; as I want nothing to snag and all edges rounded. Pachmayr 02480 S&W N Frame, Round Butt grips should round out the perfect package. Sign Me Up!!!

I believe it would make a great concealed carry "thumper" for those dark nights when evil doer's are about.

MODEL 329 NIGHT GUARD

 

[YkcorCal]

According to this Shooting Times article the 450 SMC has a higher max pressure (32K psi) than the 45 Super (~28K psi) also.

It would nice if they SAAMI standardize the cartridge but I doubt that will happen.

The .450 SMC: A Potent & Practical Defensive Cartridge | An Official Journal Of The NRA


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What our 45ACP revolvers need is just a little more powder capacity.

.

45WSM




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Thanks for all the information on the 450 SMC!

One could use this round both for self defense with HPs and bear defense including Grizzly and Brown Bears with the hardcast loads. Very interesting.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Well a 325NG gets you part of the way there.

On my 325NG I removed the dead front night sight & installed a traditional red ramp & on the back I removed the C&S fixed sight & replaced it with a S&W adjustable rear sight with a .146" white outline blade.

Recently I've been chrono testing an assortment of 45 Super loads using 185gr, 200gr & 230gr JHPs with a different combination of Power Pistol, Long Shot, & AA#7 from my S&W 4586 (4.25" bbl - 3.29" actual).

As I suspected the 185gr has yielded the most muzzle energy (1312mv / 707me) using Long Shot, so far.

The 325NG can't match that with it's shorter barrel & cylinder gap but it's still fun.

LOL, you made me think about (temporarily) removing the 45WSM cylinder from my 325TR & trying it in the 325NG, just for giggles.

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45 Super out of the 325NG a few years ago
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Honorable mention
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[racoonbeast]

Here is my .450 SMC.

I wanted something that looked like a WWll issue 1911A1 but did not want to come with the price of the original or the need for it to be preserved. I wanted something that I could shoot the heck out of and maybe even beat a little.

I bought a TISAS gov't model when they first started coming in (forged frame). I tossed out all of the MIM internals and with the help of Ebay filled it full of WWll Remington Rand stuff, and a few other things that I liked the looks of that did not destroy the look that I was going for. I sent it to Ford's for a reproduction WWll parkerization. I then converted it to .450 SMC.

It shoots great. It is absolutely reliable. On the occasions that I carry a gun, it is what I carry. I have a little over six hundred bucks tied up in the whole project. Works for me.

 

[BB57]

Oh, and why don't I just move out of California? Well, my wife and I have gone through our life's saving's on doctors and now live in a 500 sq. ft senior's apt. in a senior's apt. complex living on Social Security as that is all we have left. We don't have the money to move down the street unless it is to live in our car. So we are for now better off than many out here. The crime is getting worse and worse and if the rents keep going up we don't know what we will do. Hopefully, the youngest son of my wife will take us in.

I have been selling all my other guns to get down to just the bare necessities, i.e. something that shoots .45 ACP.

Sorry to hear that. People who work their whole lives deserve a lot better treatment than that.

Medical bills are the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US, mostLy because both the medical, drug and insurance industries are big businesses run to maximize profit for investors with no concern for public health and welfare. Those of us over 50 can remember when it wasn’t always that way.

Rent increases have become absolutely abusive over the last decade or so, due in large part to investment companies buying up rental properties in order to up the rent just to maximize return on investment. When a few companies buy up enough properties in an area they can start price fixing.

We used to do a lot more enforcement of anti trust laws, and we need to get back to doing that.

 

[BB57]

I have a performance center 625 as well as a number of 1911s in .45 ACP.

I’ve never encountered an actual need for more performance, unless it had 4 legs.

In the winter months when I’m back in a vest I’ll carry it occasionally in a shoulder holster.

 

[BB57]

According to this Shooting Times article the 450 SMC has a higher max pressure (32K psi) than the 45 Super (~28K psi) also.

It would be nice if they SAAMI standardize the cartridge but I doubt that will happen.

The .450 SMC: A Potent & Practical Defensive Cartridge | An Official Journal Of The NRA

.

What our 45ACP revolvers need is just a little more powder capacity.

.

45WSM




.

I used to shoot .45 Win mag in Hunter silhouette matches. It basically had .44 Mag ballistics in a rimless case suitable for semi auto pistols.

To bad it never caught on.

 

[YkcorCal]

I carry Federal 230 grain HST +Ps in my 4" S&W 625.

What I would like is a 2.5 to 2.75 inch .450 WSM/.45ACP stainless steel revolver designed as a concealed carry/close combat Performnce Center revolver for use under the most adverse conditions a person could face. At times it would be carried as a second gun at the same time as my 625 4". At others it would be the primary as well as my nightstand gun.

If you are happy with what you have; more power to you. I can see the use of the right loading out of a .450 SMC being an "advantage" aganst the criminal element but not just any loading. No handgun no matter what caliber or power is perfect but we always seek to give the "Good Guys" especially those willing to train to use its' power for the protection of the weak the edge in a fight where the criminal seeks to attack from the dark and surprise.

"Hunt the wolf, protect the flock!"


These will be the loads I will be testing out myself.

450 SMC 200GR Bonded JHP - Velocity: 1250fps / 5.0" 1911

450 SMC 230GR Bonded JHP - Velocity: 1130fps / 5.0" 1911

I would love to see these loads tested out of a 2.5 to 2.75" revolver. As well as full FBI Gel Tested.

 

[BB57]

I carry Federal 230 grain HST +Ps in my 4" S&W 625.

What I would like is a 2.5 to 2.75 inch .450 WSM/.45ACP stainless steel revolver designed as a concealed carry/close combat Performnce Center revolver for use under the most adverse conditions a person could face. At times it would be carried as a second gun at the same time as my 625 4". At others it would be the primary as well as my nightstand gun.

If you are happy with what you have; more power to you. I can see the use of the right loading out of a .450 SMC being an "advantage" aganst the criminal element but not just any loading. No handgun no matter what caliber or power is perfect but we always seek to give the "Good Guys" especially those willing to train to use its' power for the protection of the weak the edge in a fight where the criminal seeks to attack from the dark and surprise.

"Hunt the wolf, protect the flock!"


These will be the loads I will be testing out myself.

450 SMC 200GR Bonded JHP - Velocity: 1250fps / 5.0" 1911

450 SMC 230GR Bonded JHP - Velocity: 1130fps / 5.0" 1911

I would love to see these loads tested out of a 2.5 to 2.75" revolver. As well as full FBI Gel Tested.

I understand what you want.

Gel test results are important to establish a measurable and objective standard to determine if a load and handgun combination actually demonstrates performance in 10% ballistic gelatin that correlates well with other loads that demonstrated satisfactory performance on average in actual real world shoots.

Where people start making inaccurate inferences is that some rounds are better than others, which isn’t really the case when all of the rounds meet the FBIs gel test requirements. Once that threshold is met, they all perform about the same in the field, with the spread between them being less than 10% from .380 ACP to .44 Magnum, and with statistically no difference between the .357 Magnum, .357 Sig, .45 ACP, .41 Magnum and .44 Magnum.

Once again for the folks that might have missed it. Once you get to the .357 Mag/.357 Sig level of performance in actual self defense shoots, the level of effectiveness is not significantly better for the .45 ACP, .41 Magnum, or .44 Magnum.

When looking at various data sets you might note that the .357 Mag, .41 Mag and .44 magnum have slightly fewer average hits to incapacitation but that doesn’t reflect greater effectiveness as much as it does slower rate of fire. The differences are on of the order of 1.7 for the magnum revolvers versus 2.1 for .45 ACP pistol.

——

Which is why I am equally happy carrying a .45 ACP (in revolver or semi auto form) or a .357 Mag revolver and don’t see any need for more power (coming from a guy who also used to have a .45 Win Mag.)

I also don’t feel under gunned with a 9mm pistol given than I can shoot three rounds and get 3 A zone hits with a 9mm in the time it takes me to shoot two rounds and get 2 A zone hits with a .45 ACP pistol, given the quicker recoil recovery of the 9mm in otherwise identical 1911 pistols.

In short, bigger isn’t really better as:

- there isn’t any significant increase in effectiveness with even the biggest handgun rounds;
- there isn’t nearly as much spread between the .380 ACP and the .44 Magnum as you’d think; and
- all handguns rounds come up well short of rifle and shotgun rounds when it comes to immediate or rapid incapacitation.

 

[YkcorCal]

I agree bigger is not always better depending on the situation, intervening cover, body armor. mental as well as chemical state of the perp you are dealing with. I have seen a teenager so high on Angel Dust only a shot to the central nervous system could have stopped him. Thank God, his girlfriend was lucid enough to calm him down and how she could even get through to him was a sight to see in itself. It is amazing what the human body can absorb under some conditions and at others shock can kill with a mere flesh wound.

That is why I like the idea of a .450 SMC/.45 ACP 2.5 to 2.75 Performance Center "combat revolver" as it would be an easy to carry revolver for self-protection against both two legged and four legged predators while maintaining its use of the .45 ACP for ammo continuity with my other handguns.

"Feeling a need" was the criteria for developing and carrying bigger cartridges that started the development of the .357 Magnum because many police and civilians were not satisfied with the .38 Special. It is sort of in the nature of American's to find a better gadget, better bullet, better caliber, in a never ending quest for perfection which of course can never be achieved.

Look to science fiction were they have ray guns that can be set from stun to vaporize of other humans. Even looking to the future man cannot bring himself to only stun but also must retain the right to kill.

 

[YkcorCal]

The sights I love are from D&L Sports Inc.Smith and Wesson K, L, and N Frame Sights

 

[smoothshooter]

Oh, and why don't I just move out of California? Well, my wife and I have gone through our life's saving's on doctors and now live in a 500 sq. ft senior's apt. in a senior's apt. complex living on Social Security as that is all we have left. We don't have the money to move down the street unless it is to live in our car. So we are for now better off than many out here. The crime is getting worse and worse and if the rents keep going up we don't know what we will do. Hopefully, the youngest son of my wife will take us in.

I have been selling all my other guns to get down to just the bare necessities, i.e. something that shoots .45 ACP.

If you moved to one of several states you could cut your expenses by almost half.

 

[YkcorCal]

If you moved to one of several states you could cut your expenses by almost half.

Right now I could not afford to move down the street unless it was to live in my car. We live Social Security Check to Social Security Check.

 

[YkcorCal]

Even a round butt 2.75" S&W 625 with an unfluted cylinder would be MUCH APPRECIATED!

Perhaps looking like below, he, he:

Smith & Wesson 625 Performance Center

OR

S&W Model 625-6 3" .45 ACP but add an unfluted cylinder

 

[StrawHat]

Here is my cup of tea, a S&W Model 22-4, capable of easily handling the 45 Super,

Another one,

A S&W Model 625 Mountain Gun,

I have several others, 4” tapered barrels, 45 ACP but capable of 45 Super.

Not sure what the 450 SMC would do better?

Kevin