New M&P Owner - Lots of questions

[EthanG-M&P]

Hi all!

(sorry this post got really long as I started typing)

My family has been buying S&W for years now due to their reliability and the fact that they are produced in our home state of MA. I bought my first fire arm last week, a S&W M&P 9mm.

Product: Smith & Wesson M&P9c - Compact Size, Magazine Safety

Smith & Wesson M&P - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After reading through the manual and shooting it at the range twice, I have some questions and concerns. I have been looking around the internet and browsing through these forums, but I still have some questions. I was hoping that some well informed individuals might help me out with a few answers?

1) The fire arm is advertised as 10+1 (MA compliant), yet I have had difficulties achieving this.

- When I load 10 rounds into the magazine, I can only insert it into the pistol if the slide is locked back, and then released and chambers a round. Even after doing this, and taking the clip out to add in another round, it seems I can't insert a fully loaded clip back into the pistol. At least it didn't want to go in easy, and I didn't want to force it. I have read that MA requires a "Magazine Safety" which prevents the pistol from being fired without a magazine in, but that wouldn't stop me from loading a full clip with or without a round in the chamber, would it?

- Is there a way to fully load the magazine, yet not have the pistol cocked with one in the chamber? I'm new to Conceal and Carry and a little weary of the pistol not having a thumb safety; I'm afraid of accidentally grabbing the trigger when drawing the pistol.

- Is it possible to chamber a round and have a fully loaded magazine?

- The MA law is always fluctuating, and has recently changed, I believe. My license allows me to have "Large Capacity" magazines (if previously manufactured before 1999, but I believe that has recently changed also), does S&M manufacture magazines in +10 rounds that would still sit flush in the M&P 9mm compact?

2) I have read a lot about the trigger, and it having issues. Some love it, some hate it and mod it.

- What is the deal with dry firing this weapon? I have always been taught not to do so with any fire arm unless it is necessary. Out of curiosity, I dry fired the M&P and it didn't seem to do anything - no cocking of the fire pin or anything, but I might be wrong about this. Is it damaging to dry fire the pistol?

- I hear the trigger needs a break in time. Right now, it is a very heavy trigger. Will it soften up with use, either dry fire, snap caps, or live rounds?

- There seems to be some conversion kits (such as the Apex mod?) to alter the trigger pull/weight, and also some online manuals for machining some of the parts yourself. I'd rather purchase a kit than start messing with things myself. What is your opinion on these kits, and the trigger. Does S&M offer trigger adjustments at their factory still? My father had his .38 done 30+ years ago right at the factory, and he has been talking about taking a ride back to get my pistol worked on. If we didn't want to take the 2+ hour drive, would S&W mail the machined pistol back and forth? If I go ahead and get a trigger job/mod, what do you recommend for the pull weight? I shoot my fathers pistols which have 'hair triggers', and they improve the accuracy of my shooting 2-fold.

Apex 5-5.5 lb trigger kit:
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid35.html

Apex 3 lb kit:
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid36.html

Do it yourself (not what I'm looking to do - would rather buy a kit):
http://www.burwellguns.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf

3) Reloading at home.

- My father has a reloader that he uses for his .38, and I am looking to buy the correct dies for reloading 9mm rounds. Does anyone have advice on where to pick up these dies from? What type of powder should I be using, and how many grains, for the M&P 9mm? Should I clean the pre-fired casings before reloading, and if so, with what?


OK OK! I know that was a lot of questions, and I apologize, but when it comes to fire arms (as with most other things), I like to be well informed. Any info you anyone can send my way would certainly be appreciated.

Thank you all in advance,
--EthanG

 

[Chris A.]

Hi Ethan,

Welcome to the forum. The only one of your questions I can answer has to do with the trigger. I got my MP9 in November. Yes, the trigger was very gritty. I wouldn't necessarily call it a heavy pull, just not very smooth to the feel. Shoot it and it will free-up some. I never did a lot of dry firing, just took it to the range and put about 500 rounds through it in the first month. There was a noticeable difference in the trigger just within that time frame. To date, have about 1000 rounds through it, and I barely notice the take up any more.

As far as dry firing goes, I believe people on this forum has posted that it is okay to dry fire without snap caps. Personally, I shoot it too much to really do much dry firing. When I do, I use snap caps.

Good luck!

 

[S&W Rover]

That's a lot of good questions!

I really like my S&Ws, and got a chance to tour the factory in Springfield last summer. Great people, working hard to make a good product.

As for a fully loaded magazine -- there might be enough room there as the spring breaks in a bit and relaxes, or if you tried another magazine. My advice is to not worry about it -- go with the one less than advertised. The top round pushes against the slide as it retracts, and it is a good thing for the stack to have the ability to move down a bit. Also, I never load a mag to the top and leave it there -- for fear of compressing the spring to the point it is wears out sooner than it should (learned in the days when we loaded 18 in a M-16 20 round magazine, and enjoyed better reliability as a result).

Older versions of the M&P (black striker) had some problems with dry firing -- roughly pre-2008 -- as the striker could break. Much less of a problem with the new (silver colored) striker. In any case, it is best to use a snap cap. You should "cock" the striker OF AN EMPTY GUN (snap cap only) by moving it back until you hear the striker catch, then let it go forward, then pull the trigger. Repeat manually, cocking the slide/striker for each trigger pull. Remember, lots of people have shot their family cat or TV thinking the gun was "empty." Always aim at something safe...

The trigger does get smoother in time -- probably noticeable after a couple of hundred rounds (or dry fires) and getting better as you go along.

The Apex DCAEK gets good reviews. If you want to keep the trigger pull fairly heavy, for safety reasons, you can add just the USB kit, which makes the trigger smoother and a little lighter. For a 9c, a carry gun, you may not want the 4-5 lbs trigger that results from installing the whole Apex kit (sear, spring, USB, etc.). The neat thing about the kits is that you can install them and change back if you don't like the results.

If you have a problem with your S&W, call the factory and they will send you a mailing label to ship it to them (guns have to go UPS overnight). I don't know if the factory would let you just walk in with a gun -- they have a lot of security at the gate -- so I would call ahead if you want to take your 9c there directly.

The Burwell sear mod reportedly works pretty well but you are right, it takes some smithing skills and the Apex kits are easier to do yourself. All you need is a 1/8 inch punch from Home Depot...

Reloading. I reload .40 S&W. I may re-load 9mm later (I am saving all of the 9mm brass I can find) but in general, reloading 9mm is not a big cost saver if you can find ammo for $10 a box. Best advice is to get a good re-loading manual (Speer, for example) and the ABC's of Reloading. I use both Accurate #5 and Unique, and follow the loads (min to max) from the Speer manual and the company reloading charts.

You can find reloading equipment of all types on web sites from Midway, Cabelas, Mid-South, Graf and Son, etc. Everybody has a favorite vendor for bullets, dies, etc. Some practical advice: it is fine to buy equipment on the web, but you can save the $25 UPS HAZMAT fee if you buy powder and primers from a brick-and-mortar store near where you live.

Whew, Ethan, you have a lot of questions. There are some possible answers to some of them. Welcome to M&P ownership and to shooting!

 

[insomniac]

hey Ethan

congrats on the new pistola.

i can only get 11 into my MP9c 12 round mags, however i can get 17 into my 17 round mags

i'm a big fan of the DCAEK from Apex. the kit includes a stronger (MA spec) sear plunger spring. i guess all you MA folks have very strong trigger fingers and your state government is just trying to protect you from yourselves

as for CCW; if you use a good holster that covers the trigger, you really don't need another safety on this weapon IMO. i carry the MP9c every day.

 

[Martya]

I have the M&P45, it advertises 10+1. I have to be a bit firm when I re-insert 2 of my 4 mags when I +1. Most of the time I leave it at 9 with one in the chamber, maybe that extends the spring life. I carry a spare mag anyway.

 

[agksimon]

If you use an Uplula loader, you'll be able to top off the magazine, as they are tight.
Also, you can lightly trim off some of the skirt on the magazine follower to allow magazine topoff. I did both.

 

[FirebirdV8]

Welcome to the S&W club. You have had some great answers so far. I will add my little bit as well.
1) New magazines will be stiff. If you want the last round to fit, especially when they cut them off at 10 you will have to break in the spings by loading and unloading the magazine (can be done by hand but it is easier and much more enjoyable when done at the range). Then, once you can get the 10th round in, leave it in over a weekend and then repeat the loading/unloading procedure.
On your carrying with one in the chamber question, do what you feel comfortable and safe with. However, I would suggest you get some training so that you feel safe with carrying one in the chamber. A semi-auto without a round in the chamber is basically a hammer.

2) The trigger will break in with time and shooting. I wouldn't worry about a modification untill you learn whether you will like the broken in trigger or not.

3) Reloading 9mm isn't as cost efficient as most of the other calibers, but if you buy your supplies in bulk you will still save money. I find reloading to be an enjoyable thing to do after dinner while watching tv. It also allows you to customize a load to the kind of shooting you desire to do. It also allows you to beat any ammo runs, like happened after Obama was elected.
Give yourself some time to get used to shooting your M&P (so you know what kind of loads you want to develop). Then, if you haven't already learned to reload from your father, have someone help teach you and go for it.

Enjoy your new addiction.

 

[EthanG-M&P]

Thank you all for your input.

I especially enjoyed this, "A semi-auto without a round in the chamber is basically a hammer."

I agree, but I also hear a lot of cops shooting themselves in the foot with their Glocks. I have been carrying mine without one in the camber, just to get more comfortable with having it on my hip. We'll see how it goes. It is a little large and cumbersome, and I have thought about finding more of a "pocket" gun to carry for every day, and use the M&P when I feel I'm going to a more sketchy part of the state; I'm not sure yet.

As for the getting a full mag, I have no real problem getting 10 rounds into the mag (its capacity), but at that point, I can't insert it into the pistol unless the slide is locked back in the "empty" position, as if I just shot through a full mag. I can only insert a mag into the pistol (with the slide forward) when it only has 9 in the clip, and none in the camper. I am afraid of bending some of the small pins and what not in the inner mechanism by trying to "jam" in a full clip that the gun doesn't want to take.

As for reloading, i have a book from the 70's which has a section on reloading 9mm's, but should I use this, or is it outdated information? I bought the 9mm because I knew rounds would be less expensive, but yes, I would like to save a little money on reloading, and yes, I hear it's enjoyable.

Time will tell.

 

[Deanintemp]

I have the M&P9c without the magazine safety and have no difficulties with loading 10+1 at all. I also have a full size mag (17 rounds) with the extender and have no difficulties loading 17+1. Maybe it has to do with your magazine safety?

 

[EthanG-M&P]

From what I've read about the MA/CA compliant Magazine Safety, it just prevents the gun from firing without a magazine in the pistol, so that the gun would be rendered useless, even as a single fire weapon with one in the chamber, if the magazine was removed and hidden.

Can that be removed, both physically, and legally? Even with it in, can I "jam" the mag into the pistol with a full 10 in the magazine, without hammering the inner mechanisms of the pistol? I didn't try to force it, but if I hear that it won't cause damage, I will try.

 

[Lost Lake]

You won't hurt the gun 'jamming' a full mag in it.

 

[EthanG-M&P]

Well,

To whom may be interested, I spent all day yesterday going between the 4th largest independent gun store in MA, and Bass Pro.

Bass Pro Shops Outdoors Online: Offering the best in Fishing, Hunting and Outdoor Products

Northeast Trading Company- Quallity Firearms, Training, Gunsmith, Ammunition, Accessories

I learned, the M&P is not a 10+1 pistol, it is just a 10 with one chambered, or a 9 without; end of story.

I was told that dry firing it without snap caps is not a big deal.

If you are looking to purchase this pistol, make sure not to be impulsive; look around at independent dealers/stores before purchasing, and you'll save some money. There was a $100 price difference between Bass Pro and Northeast Trading Company (see link above).

I did however get $60 bucks of on my Bass Pro purchase, earned a $100 gift card, and after going back a week after purchasing the pistol, and talking to the manager of the hunting department, Derek, about their price match guarantee, he told me that they don't compete with private parties, but still gave me a $50 gift card as a supplement. So, all and all, I made out with $200 bucks worth of "free" shwag.

Now, I'm off to reload 500+ rounds. I'll see you all in a week or so.

 

[sheepdawg]

If it's like my MP40 Pro the more you shoot it the better the trigger gets.

 

[EPWrangler]

Gosh! I love newbees. I have been shooting over 60 years now and love to hear people who are interested in shooting and reloading. Much of the advise is right on but there are some who remind me of the blind leading the blind. Keep learing and don't depend on the guy at the LGS. Sort of reminds me of what happened to Sears years ago. I used to buy a lot of sears tools and asa young man knew the old guy there could tell it straiht because he used one. then one day he was retired and replaced by a teenaged girl whose reply to my question was, "What's that?" Now I am one of the old guys.There are a l9t of us and we pretty enerally knowthe truth even if we are a bit set in our ways. 1911 anyone?

 

[EthanG-M&P]

Haha, thanks Wrangler. I have respect for knowledge, but sadly, my generation doesn't seem to have much of it.

I have shot the 1911 and loved it, but I went with the 9mm M&P for various reasons. The 1911 is still on my "wish list" of guns to own, but now is not the time. As I grow and age, so will my collection.

Take care, sir.

--EthanG

 

[mgoodbar]

Great Read guys..
Haha, thanks Wrangler. I have respect for knowledge, but sadly, my generation doesn't seem to have much of it.

I can believe how most of my generation acts. And some of the kids i see running around man, Can you Say grab a paddle and beat the **** out of them, I just hope my kids grow up half as respectful as I .. am. Im 33 this year my oldest is 15 my youngest is 8 I have 6 and they act pretty good compared to some i have seen. but they still have a little of this the world ows me somthing in them.. )

 

[EthanG-M&P]

I'm 26 myself, but was raised well and learned respect, and appreciation for knowledge. I got slapped around here and there as a kid, but most times I deserved it.

The younger generation's largest exposure to society is television, which usually displays a very poor side of it. I'm glad I was kept busy with more productive activities as a kid.

Good luck with your 15 year old! haha. Tough times.

 

[Jabbit]

From what I've read about the MA/CA compliant Magazine Safety, it just prevents the gun from firing without a magazine in the pistol, so that the gun would be rendered useless, even as a single fire weapon with one in the chamber, if the magazine was removed and hidden.

Can that be removed, both physically, and legally? Even with it in, can I "jam" the mag into the pistol with a full 10 in the magazine, without hammering the inner mechanisms of the pistol? I didn't try to force it, but if I hear that it won't cause damage, I will try.

Hey, I am in MA too - Hi! Anyways, my m+p 9mm clearly states that it WILL fire without the magazine in it. I think the versions that do NOT fire with the mag in are for CA/NY.

I also have difficulty loading 10 rds. into a mag, even with the maglula speed loader. I have about 5-600 rounds through mine.

 

[EthanG-M&P]

Howdy, Jabbit.

I was told that the only way to carry 10 rounds, is to have one in the chamber (slide back - insert fully loaded 10 round clip - slide forward).

I do have all the MA compliant do-hickies, and then some, I guess - the mag safety. I don't really mind having the mag safety though. Any time I am looking to fire the gun, I will have the mag in for sure. I did watch a video about how to remove it, but I don't care to go through that.

My 9mm has about 300 rounds though it, and it hasn't malfunctioned once (that wasn't my fault - had a reload with no powder in it, causing a bullet to get lodged in the barrel).

How do you like the trigger, is it softening up for you? When I first started shooting mine, I was hating on the trigger, but it has grown on me. I did however order an Apex kit, and am looking to install that when it arrives.

 

[Jabbit]

Howdy, Jabbit.

I was told that the only way to carry 10 rounds, is to have one in the chamber (slide back - insert fully loaded 10 round clip - slide forward).

I do have all the MA compliant do-hickies, and then some, I guess - the mag safety. I don't really mind having the mag safety though. Any time I am looking to fire the gun, I will have the mag in for sure. I did watch a video about how to remove it, but I don't care to go through that.

My 9mm has about 300 rounds though it, and it hasn't malfunctioned once (that wasn't my fault - had a reload with no powder in it, causing a bullet to get lodged in the barrel).

How do you like the trigger, is it softening up for you? When I first started shooting mine, I was hating on the trigger, but it has grown on me. I did however order an Apex kit, and am looking to install that when it arrives.

Howdy!

I have been able to load 1 in the chamber, close the slide, then insert a full 10rd mag. However, I don't like how it feels when I do it. The mag clips in, and it works, I just feel like I have to put too much pressure on the mag to get it in.

To me, it seems as if they made the 10rd mags a hair too short. If they had given you a little more room, then 10+1 wouldn't be an issue.

I like my trigger so far. You will have to let me know what you think of the Apex kit. I have heard good things, but I haven't done anything about it yet.

Just out of curiousity, how do you get the bullet out of the barrel? I have some reloads that I have yet to shoot, and I suppose there could be a chance I have some duds that are similar. Never encountered it before though.