New Models vs 1980s: A Comparison

[Colonel Dan]

I recently bought a NIB 686-6, 3” 7 shot, with internal lock. Good gun but not up to 1980s standards.

Comparing this new model to my 1981 25-5 and my 1984 66-2, the difference in the attention to detail is stark. The stamping on the barrel is not nearly as crisp and clean as the older models, the S&W logo is laser etched rather than stamped and the trigger is not nearly as smooth, especially in double action mode. The feel of my 1980s guns shouts quality through and through. This new one, although I’m sure a good gun, doesn’t shout nearly as loudly if you get my meaning.

As for the lock, I’m still concerned about it malfunctioning at some point…I have nothing on which to base this other than some isolated reports but my preference would have been for the older design but I specifically wanted a 3” 7 shot revolver and they weren’t available back when…as far as I know that is.

Does anyone here have similar observations? If so, why is S&W cheapening their great products and damaging their reputation in the process? I would have paid more for the same quality as the older models...

 

[Bullseye Smith]

If you don't like it, sale it. Why is this the subject that alot of new members bring to this section. There isn't a machine on this good earth that will work 100% of the time, or run as good as the one sitting next to it. How many auto's FTL & FTF, and all you hear about is how bad the new ones are. Heck, I like my 1899 Target model too, but not any more than a new 686, different gun from a different age. If you don't like it move on.

 

[Revolver King]

Believe it or not you are paying a lot more. That being said look for a 686-4 in 3" 7 shot. They are out there.

 

[Leonard]

I agree I like the guns of the 80's much better and I have gotten rid of my new Smiths.

Len

 

[sceva]

It's all relative. In the 80's all the talk was about how quality had gone down hill and the ones from the XX's (substitute 70's, 60's etc) were so much better. My 1985 25-5 is a fine revolver (My favorite).
I will say this, when I go into the shops I barely look at the new ones. I very much prefer the older pre-MIM and lock ones myself.

 

[jcelect]

Patience

Hey Colonel Dan, welcome aboard!
Good question for a person shooting a "new" gun when that person has shot only the older ones. The difference between the triggers on your two examples is the round count! Your 25-5 has probably had a few thousand rounds thru it and the 686 is like new! The triggers get smoother when shot alot! This process is called "lapping in" or more commonly called "wareing in"! Another reason could be the era of manufacture of your 686. During the end of the Banjor Punta era (approx 1982-1984) the company's quality control went into the dumpster! I have seen (worked on) new 686s that had machining particles inside! Some folks cure the bad triggers with a trigger job by a good gunsmith, dry firing the gun, or just plain "shoot the hell" out of the gun(it was made to shoot! I agree with your assessment, that's why I do a trigger job on every new shooter I get. A "trigger job" does nothing but smooth out all the burrs and rough spots and lighten the pulls(about 10,000 rounds worth)! ! !
jcelect SWCA#723

 

[pinkymingeo]

My 1969 15-3 snubbie had the worst action out-of-the-box I've ever seen on a S&W. I bought the gun unfired. Cleaned it. Lubricated it. Shipped it. S&W gave it an action job, which made it a fantastic shooter. My point is that there are a lot more quality control factors to be considered than just year of production.

 

[18DAI]

"Why is this the subject that alot of new members bring to this section."

Because they have common sense and can see the differences. Perhaps collectors, and fanboys, need that pointed out occasionally. Regards 18DAI.

 

[Wayne M]

I started buying revolvers in the '60's(1960's for you comedians!) and when the '80's rolled around I just wasn't sold on that jun....on those guns. And honestly, with each major production change I have not been all that enthused soooo.....keeping in mind my plan to live until at least my 175 birthday and in perfect health, I'm stocking up on current Smith revolvers so that I don't need to scour the countryside 115 years from now looking for stuff "from the good ole days!"

Live long and prosper!!!

 

[samIam]

I recently bought a NIB 686-6, 3” 7 shot, with internal lock. Good gun but not up to 1980s standards.

Comparing this new model to my 1981 25-5 and my 1984 66-2, the difference in the attention to detail is stark. The stamping on the barrel is not nearly as crisp and clean as the older models, the S&W logo is laser etched rather than stamped and the trigger is not nearly as smooth, especially in double action mode. The feel of my 1980s guns shouts quality through and through. This new one, although I’m sure a good gun, doesn’t shout nearly as loudly if you get my meaning.

As for the lock, I’m still concerned about it malfunctioning at some point…I have nothing on which to base this other than some isolated reports but my preference would have been for the older design but I specifically wanted a 3” 7 shot revolver and they weren’t available back when…as far as I know that is.

Does anyone here have similar observations? If so, why is S&W cheapening their great products and damaging their reputation in the process? I would have paid more for the same quality as the older models...

If you think the new one doesn't measure up,why did you buy it?

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Reading this thread, it seems to me that a lot of guys with newer Smith's might be taking offense to the OP's question. It was an honset question, and deserves as much courtesy as any other question asked on this forum.

I don't know why he bought the gun, but he did. Maybe the place he bought it from wouldn't let him dry fire the tar out of the gun before paying. I know a lot of the shops in my area won't let you do it. There are still a lot of guys around who believe that it will hurt the gun, and the stores here don't want to loose potential customers who may be observing what you are doing. There are a lot of reasons why he may have bought the gun without really getting the feel of it first.

Either way, the new Smith's just don't feel near as good to me as the older ones, action wise. Yes, I have a few places that I go that will let me dry fire their guns, since I have done enough business with them for them to get to know me. I have tried both side by side, and I don't like the new ones as well.

 

[Colonel Dan]

Thanks for the replies. I can see where some might wonder why I bought the gun. Please don't get me wrong, as I stated in my original post, this new 686 is a quality gun but I just made the observation that in a few areas i.e. stamping, engraving on the barrel and frame and trigger feel, it just isn't the same quality as my older ones in my opinion when inspected side by side...sorry if that offends some of the senior members of this forum but that was just my observation and I was simply wondering if any others saw it the same way..nothing more, nothing less.

I bought the gun because as stated, I wanted a 3" 7 shot revolver and this was a better gun for me than the GP100 I was also considering. I will keep an eye out for a 686-4 however as Revolver_King suggested---thanks for that info R_K.

Again, thanks for the replies and to jcelect for the kind note of welcome.

In the end, I'll keep all the Smiths I have including this new 686-6!

 

[sasu]

The newer guns probably have less hand fitting on them, but the much improved precision of the automated machining (Computed Aided Manufacturing/CAM) operations and Metal Injection Molding/MIM more than make up for it.

And there are places that need precise fitting and places where you should not bother with it. A good example is my high end semi-custom Les Baer 1911 pistol. It has hideous, unfinished rough spots in many places on the inside, but all the important fittings have been done perfectly. The pistol is ultra accurate and very reliable.

 

[Nframe357]

I have a 1980 mfg. 629, this is the best assembled S&W that I've ever owned, period. It's fit is fantastic, zero cylinder play and lockup is the tightest that I've ever seen on a Smith, it is also one of the most accurate revolvers that I've ever fired. It also has the clean lines and good looks of the older style S&W's. Newer models of S&W's lines have been corrupted and they are no longer clean looking, the angles just don't look right to me. I truly dislike the newer style cylinder release and of course the lock hole. Trigger wise all require a little work old or new but older Smiths feel better IMO. My newest S&W is a 1994 vintage 686-4 and it's my favorite revolver and my most accurate, I feel the change from quality happened with the MIM and lock nonsense of the late 90's. My only S&W that I've ever had a function issue with was a 03 model 617 that had to go back to S&W 3 times to get it right, it was then sold. A gun that can not be relied upon is a waste and has no place in my battery of revolvers. Sorry for my money S&W stopped production in 1995 or so...

 

[afriqueart]

I'm new to S&W revolvers. In the few months I've been investigating and deciding on a purchase, I have some criteria:

1. No locks
2. No MIM
3. No plastic grips
4. Pinned barrels, please
5. A mark or scratch tells the story of the life of the handgun and makes it unique.

A well cared for used handgun has character, is made from better metal and most likely is better crafted. It also costs less than a new gun!

 

[InTheWoods]

I like them all, and I have noted pluses and minus with each vintage. My 35 has a terribly trigger, while my new 60-15 trigger is perfect. I love my Model 18, yet my 648 with a lock has a wonderful trigger pull and its fit and finish is just fine. I have a 34 I bought in the 70s that has wonderful bluing, but the edge of the rib was partially ground away during the finishing process. My 63 (no dash) seems to be built well, but really doesn't shoot well. I have no real problem with the lock, but do not like the resulting frame profile on the j-frames.

You really can't go wrong with any of them. Few of them are perfect, but all of them are excellent!

 

[dixiedawg119]

Maybe the place he bought it from wouldn't let him dry fire the tar out of the gun before paying. I know a lot of the shops in my area won't let you do it.

Really? I've been in quite a few gun shops. I always ask before I dry fire, but I've never been told no. How's a fella supposed to know if he likes a gun if he's never pulled the trigger on it? Heck, one pawn shop in Athens, Ga let me take apart and reassemble half their NEF shotguns until I found one that the parts interchanged with my Pardner well. Had gun parts scattered all over the counter, but I bought one that day.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Really? I've been in quite a few gun shops. I always ask before I dry fire, but I've never been told no. How's a fella supposed to know if he likes a gun if he's never pulled the trigger on it? Heck, one pawn shop in Athens, Ga let me take apart and reassemble half their NEF shotguns until I found one that the parts interchanged with my Pardner well. Had gun parts scattered all over the counter, but I bought one that day.

Yes really.
In my area, if you ask to dry fire a gun, most of the counter personel will say that they prefer you not to. As I said, I have several shops that I go to that let me dry fire, but they generally know me and that I have handled a few guns in my life, and won't hurt theirs. There are more and more younger guys coming into employment at a lot of these shops, who apparently have been taught that the dry firing of a gun is an old wives tale, which is a good thing, since it is. (With the exception of rimfires)

 

[stevieboy]

I have four Smith & Wesson revolvers that I'm actively shooting these days. They were made, respectively, in 1971, 1988, 1993, and 2006. All of them are great shooters. All have excellent triggers, but the best trigger of all of them is on my 2006 686-6. If you examine each of them closely you can find minor imperfections and flaws on each of them. My conclusion, based on anecdotal evidence of course, is that there is no discernible difference in quality among any of my Smith revolvers. And, it's simply wrong to say that the older guns were better made than the new ones.

Now, of course my evidence is purely anecdotal, and that's my point. I don't think any of us is qualified to make declarations about the relative qualities of Smith products over time even if some of us have fairly extensive collections. The reason: during the last 30 years or so Smith has made hundreds of thousands of revolvers. Picking a few examples and attempting to judge quality from those examples is simply not statistically valid.

 

[DC7]

Welcome to the forum!

Colonel Dan: Yours is a legitimate question, and it was also one of the first questions I had after joining the forum back in 2006. At the time I hadn't looked for a new revolver in almost 10 years, so I had no idea that S&W had changed manufacturing methods, not to mention added the ridiculous internal lock. Soon after joining I bought a couple revolvers with MIM parts, as well as some with forged/fitted parts. All were NIB, but a big difference was immediately apparent--in fit, finish, and smoothness of action, the older guns were absolutely better than the newer ones. After purchasing several more MIM and non-MIM revolvers over the next couple years (again, all still NIB) I found that difference to be remarkably consistent, with the older guns easily beating the new in the quality department.

Once in awhile I'd run across a MIM revolver with a smooth out-of-box action, but that was rare--for the most part they were barely adequate, with gritty or "notchy" actions even after much shooting and dry-firing. The forged/fitted revolvers, on the other hand, were almost without exception very good to excellent right out of the box--and the best of them were truly amazing, with actions as smooth and light as custom-tuned guns.

I still do use a revolver with MIM parts from time to time, only because nothing beats an AirLite J-frame for pocket carry. But I no longer buy anything with MIM. There are so many new or like-new older guns still available (often at prices even lower than new models) that I see no reason to buy anything else.

PS: Welcome to the forum!