New really hard way to pull bullets....

[m657]

I use virtually only Hodgdon recipes.

I'm sure there is some basic flaw in my procedure, that isn't obvious in ANY of the other reloads I build.

While 'true' my failure/error rate of owner-built 9mm range fodder has improved considerably, it STILL is enough to not be reliable for such as steel challenge use.

 

[rwsmith]

Tired of this....

I just made a batch of bullets, 9mm `125 gr. FMJ Remington bullets that got me an OAL 1.20" AND they plunk very nicely in both compact barrels. I promise that this will do the trick. Reloading for the full size 3rd gen pistol was a piece of cake compared to this. I can't BELIEVE that they make 9mm chamber leades so SHORT.

The nice thing is that even if they seem to plunk you can't push the cartridge into the barrel any more than it's already gone, which means that the bullet is finally clearing the leade.

I tried making some nice cherry red coated cast bullets and couldn't get them to plunk for beans loaded at 1.128" OAL. I'm going to have to reduce the powder load and squash the OAL down a little more.

I think that this solves my problem but I'll send out a range report after I test these.

 

[rwsmith]

Much better, but not as perfect as I hoped......

Ok, I made a batch of reloads from three kinds of bullets at 1.11" OAL in 9mm

The RN jacketed Winchesters I've been using.
Some JHPs
The new coated lead RN 125 grain

I took them to the range today. And got much better results but still had some funky bugs that didn't seem to relate to the short leade problem (but might have been).

The Shield- About 98% reliable. I had a couple of failures for the trigger to reset which might be attributed to being slightly out of battery but I don't have a solid reason.There were also a few failures to feed.

The Kel Tec did much better also, but still had a few sticky rounds and failures to feed.

The big surprise. I tried the new coated lead RN bullets that measure in diameter .3555" and 1.2" OAL. They seem to shoot fine IF they operate, which they don't do very well at all. They jammed in the barrel of all three of my guns, even the full size third gen. When I forcefully extracted them the coatings were badly damaged near the mouth of the case. These bullets haven't been tried before so they were a wild card, but I expected less trouble than this.

Next step. Load fmj RN and jhps. Plunk all bullets in all barrels. If there is any trouble next range trip, I don't want it to be related to improper chambering.

I'm going to have to look closer at those coated jobs before I try shooting them. It doesn't make sense that they would give so much trouble.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I read down to post 42, where you had a Rem. 124gr out to 1.20" and it worked..........................
Then I saw on the next post where it did not work...............

That was what I was going to tell you...................

I know the ogive of a bullet has a LOT to do with the maximum of the OAL that will work in a chamber...... but maybe that is why they have 1.165" as a cut off?

Nice to see that you are slowly getting things to work out.
However when you go to a different bullet , it is generally a brand new ball game. Back to the drawing board...........

Stay safe.

 

[rwsmith]

I realize I might not be consistent....

I read down to post 42, where you had a Rem. 124gr out to 1.20" and it worked..........................
Then I saw on the next post where it did not work...............

That was what I was going to tell you...................

I know the ogive of a bullet has a LOT to do with the maximum of the OAL that will work in a chamber...... but maybe that is why they have 1.165" as a cut off?

Nice to see that you are slowly getting things to work out.
However when you go to a different bullet , it is generally a brand new ball game. Back to the drawing board...........

Stay safe.

I don't doubt that all my data might not be completely consistent and the frustration while trying to unjam the guns didn't help. I think the ogive is why those new coated bullets refused to work, especially in my full sized that isn't picky on ammo. I've been trying to go straight to the heart of the matter and I've gotten the obvious probs, but I'm going to step back and slow down to reassess the kinks. The new coated bullets added complications I didn't need.

 

[rwsmith]

Screaming Success!!!!!!!!!!!

I shortened and shortened all of my bullets until they would plunk in all three barrels. The magic number was 1.0755" COAL. The Shield is up to 99% and the Kel tec close behind. I shot all kinds of bullets. FMJ RN. JHPs and even SWCs with the Shield. I still caught one of those red cast coated RN bullets in my full size 5943??? I'll have to figure those out, but with everything else running so well, I can take my time with that.

I worked pretty hard at the range, trying each gun with different ammo and keeping notes but by the time I was done I was having so much fun with the Shield that I stuck around for an extra half hour just shooting that one pistol. MAN THAT IS A FUN GUN TO SHOOT.


Question: Does ANYBODY have to load 9mm ammo so short??? It was a little chancy because I was using lower charges, but had to push the bullets back about .020" which is a LOT, but I don't have recipes for such short bullets. Most of the ones in my books are 1.1" OAL or greater.

I'll see how I get along with these but I may consider getting all three of these barrels reamed.

 

[Rule3]

Question: Does ANYBODY have to load 9mm ammo so short??? It was a little chancy because I was using lower charges, but had to push the bullets back about .020" which is a LOT, but I don't have recipes for such short bullets. Most of the ones in my books are 1.1" OAL or greater.

I'll see how I get along with these but I may consider getting all three of these barrels reamed.

Yes, I have been doing for years with the MBC small ball RN bullet in my CZ pistols. The nose of the bullet is too fat for the leade. A regular "pointed" shape like the cone nose will fit just fine at a little longer COL.

Moral of the story: Not all bullets will fit all barrels.

I may have mentioned I gave up on SWC in the 1911 45 until I figured out the precise COL, then bingo they work just fine.

Glad to hear you got it worked it

 

[rwsmith]

UPDATE:

I know I thought had the problem solved when I cleaned about half a pound of carbon crud out of the barrel. I've had more time to work on it since then.

I'm still having trouble with bullets not plunking in this gun and the slide locking up. I cleaned some more, no cigar.

I've got a label from the mothership today. I was heading to Fed Ex office and I said, "Wait a minute. Are you SURE?"

So I hit the cleaning tools again, soaked the barrel in Hoppes for a couple of hours, made with a LOT of bore brushng, some in a slow drill and back and forth and jagged to make sure the patch came out clean.

Bullets that I plunk in the 5946 barrel and the Kel tec practically rattle in and click on the bottom like a penny dropped on the sidewalk. Do this with the Shield however, and the bullets drop about 1/16" from the bottom. If you push the bullet in, it sticks in the barrel and has to be pried out. Some bullets get stuck halfway down the chamber. Again, easy plunk in the other barrels.

So Monday back it goes to S&W. I hope that they can tell me what I'm doing wrong (?) and hope that they touch it with a chamber reamer.

I'll report when the guns get back. I really hate having a Shield that I can't rely on at all when the other guns handle the ammo just fine.


PS: The bullets measure .354" in diameter, which I suppose is a tad small for a lead bullet. Again they fit fine in the other guns.

 

[rwsmith]

UPDATE No. 2: Shield is back from S&W

Well, after all that I got the Shield back from the factory today and they replaced the barrel so I wasn't completely out of my gourd. I played with plunking some rounds and it is better. The rounds don't get stuck in the barrel but some of them still take a slight push of about 1/16" to bottom the case in the chamber. I'm going to go try it out in the next few days and hope the problem is fixed or at least where I can work with it.

 

[Bugkiller99]

RW, kudos to you for staying the course. You've been like a bulldog with a bone.
Look forward to you next report. 9mm has been a problem for many, yours truly included.

 

[rwsmith]

Range report......

Just got back from the range. The Shield was VERY well behaved with a variety of ammunition. RN, SWC, FMJ. I feel MUCH better about using this as an SD gun!!!

 

[rwsmith]

OK, old thread but I have a report.....

It took a while but I think I got the bugs out of my reloaded ammo working in my 9mm guns.

The factory put a new barrel in the Shield. The new is better, but still the hardest of the three to work with.

Even though it wasn't called that on the website, the RN ammo that I figured would be a cinch to load must be 'small ball' ammo with a spherical round nose, but no 'taper' to the profile and therefore has to be loaded short or it will hit the lands. I won't be buying any more of this if I can get RN lead bullets with a better profile. Unfortunately I bought 1000 of these, not anticipating that it would be a huge pain in the ***.

SO.... Went to the range yesterday with my son and one of his friends and we shot at least 500 rounds EASY through the 3 semis. (plus the two revolvers and a rifle) of 124 gr FMJ RN, 125 gr SWC and the 125 grain coated RN 'small ball'. We only had three malfunctions on ejection (stovepipe, etc) and I believe all of them were with the Kel Tec and the small ball stuff.

This leads me to conclude that for defensive loads I can count on all three guns to be reliable for that purpose (and don't try to use any damn 'small ball' for SD).

The 5943 - Sweet as always

The Shield - reliable

The Kel Tec P 11 - reliable with the right ammo.

All of the Chrono readings were what were expected for each gun with 3" and 4" barrels.

And,

I also shot the mod 36 J frame and found it a very satisfactory little gun, but I have to test defensive level ammo in it because the practice stuff only chronographed about 640 fps. I'm going to have fun getting that up to more impressive levels if I can get some 125 grain defense type bullets to load. Having the .357 I was able to shoot anything through it and have plenty of heavier bullets, until I got the .38 J frame.

The 686 - sweet as always.

Most of my defense drill work is with the compact pistols, which are plain harder to shoot. I can shoot the ears off of somebody with the two full size guns.

So that should pretty much wrap up this discussion. I had not had to load 9mm ammo THAT short before I got into compacts. It's been very frustrating over these last few months having guns that I felt that I couldn't rely on and the trouble's been traced to tight chambers and those silly bullets that I bought. Any RN bullets that I buy from now on are going to have a taper in their profile. After I shoot up this thousand, that is.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Back in the 60 or 70's I messed around with light weight 9mm bullets.

The Hornady 100gr ball RN did not do well in my old Radom pistol with any OAL past 1.10"
A oal of 1.12" had 6" plus groups and also fail to eject, even with 5.5grs of Unique.

1.07" was best for no feeding problems with 4.0 grs of Bullseye for my light target loading at 25 yards.

Due to poor groups and missing tons of jack rabbits, I went to the larger 115gr bullet where my desert walks began to pay off.

 

[Paul Lavallee]

Take the barrel out of your gun. Take an unsized fired case and insert it into the chamber to be sure it headspaces on the case mouth. now start a bullet in that case and insert it in the barrel and push it in till the case mouth contacts the chamber step again. Now carefully take it out and measure the oal. Subtract .010 from that number and you have the max. oal for that bullet in that gun.