new Sport 15 mislabled: 1/9 v. 1/8 5R = not happy

AreWeNotMen?

AreWeNotMen?

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So I buy this and pick it up on Friday. One of the main reasons I chose it was due to the 1/8 5R barrel as advertised on the fore-grip sleeve. I didn't think to look for any markings on the barrel - why would I? As I am cleaning it yesterday, I notice the 1/9 (and no 5R) stamped on the barrel! :mad: I research on this site and discover most if not all are now coming with the 1/9. Had I known this, I may not have purchased it!!! And before anyone poo poo's the 5R as "no big deal, get over it" I have it on my Rem 700 and think it is a big deal and a prime selling point - hence my decision to buy it.

I'll be contacting S&W to see what they say. My hope and expectation is that they will send out a FedEx box and swap in the barrel that they advertised. I'll keep you posted.
 

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It seems like S&W may have changed the barrel specs but not the packaging. There is another thread about a person buying a M&P15 that everything points to a 1:8 barrel but the barrel is stamped 1:9.

That particular OP has not replied back to the thread yet, so it is unknown what they have done to deal with the problem.
 
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Looks like one of two possibilities is occurring.

1. S&W never changed the label they use for the 15-Sport.

2. S&W's packaging department somehow is using an old batch of labels.

Call S&W. Let us know what's up.
 
Wow. This appears to have happened multiple times (this and the "not a happy camper" thread) very very recently.

It appears S&W has a MAJOR assembly/packaging problem.

I wonder how many consumers didn't notice it.

OR
 
otisrush said:
Wow. This appears to have happened multiple times (this and the "not a happy camper" thread) very very recently.

It appears S&W has a MAJOR assembly/packaging problem.

I wonder how many consumers didn't notice it.

OR
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Are you basing this off of 2 threads? Or have you seen it pop up in other forums too?
 
Just these two threads. If both of these are what they appear to be S&W is afixing the wrong label on the gun. I'm assuming (maybe a bad assumption) that others who haven't posted have obtained mis-labeled guns. Either they haven't noticed the error. Or if they have noticed it they don't care - that the rifling isn't a big deal to them.

I'm assuming two-of-the-same experiences happening so close together here is an indicator of quite a bit more out there in the universe overall.
 
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I'm guessing most people don't even know. I sure never check the barrel or carefully inspect as others do. 1/7 or 1/9 or whatever, won't make a difference to me for what I need.
 
It's not an assembly problem, but it is most definitely a packaging/labeling problem. The 1/8 5R barrels are available in an upper end model, but haven't been used in the Sport for a while now. Contact S&W and see what shakes out. When you do that, keep it polite. Let them know about your displeasure, but going off on a rant may produce poor results. Good Luck and good shooting.
 
Yeah, I agree with Gunny on this one. Definitely a labeling problem. S&W changed the barrels and forgot to change the labeling.

I'll bet a month of lunches that 99% of those that buy an M&P Sport don't have any idea what the 1:8 or 1:9 twist rate is or how it affects them. Further, if you were to tell them, I'll bet double that that they don't care. Thus, this has never been noticed and if it has they just aren't concerned.

To the OP,
Take it back to the store and tell us what they say. They should give you your money back.
 
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I was one of those 99% that bought a new firearm and assumed that it was what it said on the box. I got burned one time. Now I'm in that 1% that demands to field strip and inspect the firearm prior to handing over cash and signing the 4473. I get some gun stores that balk at my request. I'll put the cash/check on the counter and politely tell them it's their choice. No field strip and inspection, no sale.

Because this is Illinois where there is a legislated 72-hour waiting period, I field strip and inspect the firearm prior to final sign off on the 4473 and final payment of the remaining balance.

*grumbles* Darn 72 hour "cooling off" wait period. How is that a cooling off period when I have 10 more firearms in the safe? I'm also a IL FOID and IL CCL holder. What positive overall effect to the general public at large is gained from making an individual that passed the IL State Police background check TWICE in addition to FBI NICS check multiple times wait 72 hours?
 
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JaPes said:
I was one of those 99% that bought a new firearm and assumed that it was what it said on the box. I got burned one time. Now I'm in that 1% that demands to field strip and inspect the firearm prior to handing over cash and signing the 4473. I get some gun stores that balk at my request. I'll put the cash/check on the counter and politely tell them it's their choice. No field strip and inspection, no sale.

Because this is Illinois where there is a legislated 72-hour waiting period, I field strip and inspect the firearm prior to final sign off on the 4473 and final payment of the remaining balance.

*grumbles* Darn 72 hour "cooling off" wait period. How is that a cooling off period when I have 10 more firearms in the safe? I'm also a IL FOID and IL CCL holder. What positive overall effect to the general public at large is gained from making an individual that passed the IL State Police background check TWICE in addition to FBI NICS check multiple times wait 72 hours?
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hmm I could see that as a legitimate request. I sure wouldn't be able to tell the difference, I probably should field strip my guns to see if everything is in there!

However, about half my purchases are online, I'd think it a bit offensive to require the ffl transfer person to strip it down. Though I'm sure they'd accommodate your request if you asked them to oversee it in case something was missing
 
ClayCow said:
However, about half my purchases are online, I'd think it a bit offensive to require the ffl transfer person to strip it down. Though I'm sure they'd accommodate your request if you asked them to oversee it in case something was missing
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I won mine on Gunbroker. I didn't even ask, My LGS who did the FFL had me open the box and check it out before he even handed me the paperwork to fill out. But then that's why I try to keep my dealings local. You do business in town with local people they are gonna be looking out for you too.
 
My lgs both of them simply had me fill it out and then complete the form before handing me the box. Technically they have ownership of it until you sign that form. I wonder what would happen if I did what japes does and lay my money on the table and make them open the box before signing the form. I believe it would be their right to refuse to transfer and send it back as they wouldn't be able to keep it since I had paid for it.

I did find it a little weird that I didn't get to see my gun after the transfer, but I had some faith and trust. The same things which get people screwed : )
 
Personally, I'm slightly disappointed to know mine is a 1:9 twist, but it absolutely makes no operational difference to me. It's still a total tack driver and for the money, I can't complain one bit. I'd buy another Sport any day of the week. BUT I wouldn't mind if I could find the 1:8 5R upper either! Either way, it's still more accurate than the 20" DPMS I had.
 
ClayCow said:
My lgs both of them simply had me fill it out and then complete the form before handing me the box. Technically they have ownership of it until you sign that form. I wonder what would happen if I did what japes does and lay my money on the table and make them open the box before signing the form. I believe it would be their right to refuse to transfer and send it back as they wouldn't be able to keep it since I had paid for it.
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I like to buy my firearms in person. I balk at buying off the internet because I can't inspect the firearm. The technique I use to entice the LGS to acquiesce to my request works because:

1. It shows I'm a serious buyer. I'm not there just to look.

2. It triggers the LGS's desire to garner a sale.

The form of payment also makes a difference. The payment has to be visible and tangible. Cash is king. Checks have less of an effect. Negotiating for a firearm? Bring cash and start negotiating by laying out your initial offer in cash. $20's have less of a psychological effect because people see them every day. $100 don't give me enough physical bills to make someone sweat. A combination of mainly $50's with a few other smaller bills really does the trick.

The other reason why it works is because when I buy from a LGS, they are personally invested in the sale. The LGS has converted cash into inventory. Inventory they have to move to stay in business. They need my $$$. I do not necessarily need their gun. Buying online removes that incentive from the LGS. Some other FFL miles away has my cash before they ship. The local receiving LGS has nothing on the line. If I have an issue, all they'll do is charge me shipping to send it back to the originating FFL.


KS1800R said:
Personally, I'm slightly disappointed to know mine is a 1:9 twist, but it absolutely makes no operational difference to me. It's still a total tack driver and for the money, I can't complain one bit. I'd buy another Sport any day of the week. BUT I wouldn't mind if I could find the 1:8 5R upper either! Either way, it's still more accurate than the 20" DPMS I had.
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That's the heart of the issue. S&W is a well known brand name. When I buy S&W, I have the reasonable expectation that what is labeled on the box and the hand placed sticker on the handguard is representative of the firearm in the box and wearing that label.

S&W has a brand reputation to uphold. Disappointing a customer because the final QA & packaging supervisor/manager chain didn't do their job to catch a product labeling error is stupid. Package labeling and package description sets the customer's reasonable expectations of what is in the box. Deliver less than that expectation and you've got a problem.

Again, I think S&W final packaging and inspection teams dropped the ball. I also believe that it is in my best interest to fully inspect any firearm prior to handing over cash and signing forms.
 
See. I'm all about supporting lgs but when I compare prices factoring in credit fees, shipping fees(often free)and taxes (often none online), the lgs comes up short by about 60. Plus you'd have to do the negotiating in cash, I like my credit card points : ) on the last deal if my lgs would've been able to come within 25, I would've bought the s&w from him, but he knew he couldn't and I used him as my ffl. I will however be buying from him to buy my ps90 with the fnh mil/leo discount!

I also don't care to carefully inspect my firearm at this point. I have yet to be screwed as I know it.
 
ClayCow said:
See. I'm all about supporting lgs but when I compare prices factoring in credit fees, shipping fees(often free)and taxes (often none online), the lgs comes up short by about 60. Plus you'd have to do the negotiating in cash, I like my credit card points : ) on the last deal if my lgs would've been able to come within 25, I would've bought the s&w from him, but he knew he couldn't and I used him as my ffl. I will however be buying from him to buy my ps90 with the fnh mil/leo discount!

I also don't care to carefully inspect my firearm at this point. I have yet to be screwed as I know it.
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At least you give your LGS a shot at the sale. My super small LGS is happy to transfer in any firearm for $20. Sounds like a regular price for most sane places, but in my area the going rate is $60. Just like you, I give my small LGS a shot at the sale. Most of the time, he's close enough that I'll go buy from him.
 
My LGS is large and is very busy so they're not one to haggle. Especially, on new firearms. Even on used ones they like to wait a few months before they'll even talk about a lower price.
I'll buy from them if they're competitive, but if I can find something cheaper online, by a good margin, I'll go look at it at the store to ensure I like the looks, feel, and action, and then order it online.
I still buy enough from my LGS where I don't feel bad one bit for using them to ensure I'm getting something I want online.
 
JaPes said:
I was one of those 99% that bought a new firearm and assumed that it was what it said on the box. I got burned one time. Now I'm in that 1% that demands to field strip and inspect the firearm prior to handing over cash and signing the 4473. I get some gun stores that balk at my request. I'll put the cash/check on the counter and politely tell them it's their choice. No field strip and inspection, no sale.QUOTE]
What do you mean "field strip"? Inspection I agree with, when I receive a gun, I drop the mag, clear the chamber/barrel. I confirm the SN#, what it says on the box may be right, I confirm it. If it was an M&P Sport, "I" would open the receiver, pull BCG, charge handle, front pin and put them all on the counter for you to look at/examine. I would ask what you are looking for? Do you know how to dis assemble/assemble the BCG?, the rifle? If you were looking for caliber/twist, it is on the barrel in front of sight easily visible without any dis assembly. I am curious about what you got "burned" on?? As for the other statements that people did not see/touch/feel the gun before 4473 was signed?? I have no clue!! I tried 3 different Model 19's, in the same showcase, same time, till the one felt right. On transfer guns- You can look at it, confirm make ,model, caliber, external finish, bore/chamber but you can not dis assemble it till after the 4473 is done and it is yours. When it comes in it is my responsibility to make sure that it is that way when you receive it or send it back. In regards to bartering? Let me know when you are coming in and I will mark everything up by whatever discount you want. Since new guns are 10% or less, including shipping. I can not sell you a 400$15-22 for 325 when I paid 375 + 25+ 10%, does not matter if you drop 50/100 bills on the counter. Used/consignment guns I may have more leeway depending on the gun. Ah maybe I should just put up a sign prices for JaPes are $60 higher. Be Safe,
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Maybe you have great prices viper. Other lgs do mark it up enough to negotiate down. I guess that's not you. Some are also willing to take a bit of a loss if they've held onto it long.

I've also negotiated for range time, something which doesn't cost much for them to throw in. Just something which gives them the sale to put them in some sort of level field with Internet Sales
 
ClayCow: When I did shows I would increase my price just for the haggle, made the time go faster. If people check prices I will be lowest, but what I do offer is instruction, knowledge. Other local stores mark up is 20-35%, consignments are 40%. Maybe I am selling too cheap? I try to be fair, prices I would expect to pay. Be Safe,
 
I find it interesting how people have different ideas on what they will or will not accept. I suspect that most of them will alter their "hard and fast" rules if the deal is for something they want.

I'm not really concerned about field stripping the gun at the store. What I am concerned about is what happens with a problem found once the gun is home. If I get a gun home, field strip it, and find some defect that couldn't be seen without the field strip, I'd take it back to the store and expect restitution. I don't find this unreasonable.

In this case, I wouldn't find returning the gun unreasonable. There is a clear difference in what's advertised on the gun and what the gun actually is. Most guns don't have the twist rate marked on the barrel. So, it's not unreasonable to see the 1:8 identified on the labeling and not look at the barrel.

Now that I know this issue exists, if I owned a store, I would point this discrepancy out to any potential buyer. That way they would know before they buy it. If neither of us noticed, then I would take it back or exchange it.

I really don't see why this is an issue.
 
vipermd said:
ClayCow: When I did shows I would increase my price just for the haggle, made the time go faster. If people check prices I will be lowest, but what I do offer is instruction, knowledge. Other local stores mark up is 20-35%, consignments are 40%. Maybe I am selling too cheap? I try to be fair, prices I would expect to pay. Be Safe,
Click to expand...

It's kind of like craigslist. Don't ever expect your asking price and don't ever say firm. Regardless of what price you put people want a minimum of 10% off.

Looks like you do have good prices. I'd be willing to pay more if instructors added in training equal to the amount marked up.
 
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