Newbie 629 owner

[team sidewinder]

I am over here from the S&W 15-22 forum as I am a new 629-6 5" owner. So not my first S&W but my first 44 mag wheel gun. A question about the cor-bon 300 gr. penetrator ammo. Is this too heavy/hot a load for the N-frame 629 ?

I live in Montana and the reason for the purchase of this gun was for at least better bear protection as in the past I only carried a 9mm. There is a chance that I could run into a grizzly in my area and although I know a pistol is a poor substitute for a rifle for bears this 44 mag cor-bon 300 gr penetrator looks like the best way to go for large animals. I won't use this heavy ammo on a regular basis or at all if those here think it isn't good for my 629 and will look for a another ammo option. Any thoughts here would be appreciated.
Thanks for any heip you can provide.

updated.

I have owned this revolver for a couple of months now and love it. I have come to the conclusion the 44 mag ammo for me to carry in the woods will be Garrett Defender 310gr Hammerhead ammo which I have the fullest confidence in. This ammo is pretty tame for recoil and pressure that won't hurt the 629 at all. Randy Garrett's thoughts on 44 mag ammo is based on proven research and development. You can't put a price on a good time or the best 44 mag ammo when the chips are down.

 

[jspick]

Welcome team sidewinder,

Others will tell you more about that load as I do not have that experiance. But I live in NW MT myself and say you have made a wise chioce, in my opinion, to go to a 44 mag.

I personally feel that a 44 mag is a little light to take down a charging griz, but I also carry a 5" 629 and hope I never have to use it. I do carry bear spray in the belief that it is faster and easier to use and will give me the time needed to use my 44 mag effectively.

Just some encouragement, buy some bear spray too.

John

 

[Jitterbug]

I'm just guessing and new at this myself, but, if it's later then a -3 with the endurance package then I "think" your ok. I don't think the Federal load is particularly hot.

You might want to look into Garrets 310 grain "light" load too, which is advertised at 1020 fps from a 4". $2.00 a round but Garret's stuff is supposed to be top notch.

Man you guy's are growing a good crop of Griz up there, same with the Panhandle up in Idaho, where I plan on spending some fishing and hiking time on the Idaho/Montana border, with occasional wanderings over into Montana.

I'm using a 4" 629-6, and hand loading a 280 gr. Beartooth Bullet WFNGC at 1150 fps and a 260 BTB WFNGC @ 1200 fps, hoping that either will provide some protection against any belligerent Moose or Bear on the rivers up there.

So far those loads with .429" sized bullets are shooting fairly well with my gun without any signs of undue wear and tear or pressure. Over 200 rounds now and counting....

And if you do shoot it loose, my understanding it's no big deal to fix it.

I've been advised that 300 grains is probably pushing it in a 629, but for occasional usage it's probably ok.

I went to a "Bear Spray demo" at the Grizzly and Wolff recovery center in West Yellowstone. The guy doing the demo claimed to be a long time archery hunter who hunted quite a bit for many years just outside the Park, often running into Griz, on those occasions he claimed to have a .44 Mag in one hand and the Bear Spray in the other, but has been lucky and never had to use either. We didn't discuss loads, but he was a big advocate of spray.

He claimed the biggest issue with the spray being the wind, which is why he carried both.

I'm not finished with my "loads" yet, but my plan is spray and .44 Mag. and if I didn't reload it would be Garrets, Federal Cast Core or the one of Buffalo Bores offerings. Not necessarily in that order.

No arguing the .44 is probably a bit light, I saw a 1000 pound monster up in the Lamar Valley which really is a humbling outdoor experience to say the least. Thank God he was at a distance. I would not want to be in the close vicinity of that guy.

But until I can figure out how to strap a 45-70 on my hip the .44 and spray will have to do.

Edit: Not enough coffee this morning to aid reading comprehension, I just realized you're asking about the Corbon Penetrator, I've read good things about it, but don't know the velocity of that load.

 

[Larry from Bend]

I bought some of those in the early 90s for Bob Marshall pack trips and shot them in my 29-2. I became convinced that a hardcast bullet was a better answer than the Penetrator shortly after that. Part of this was the large meplat on a hardcast vs the smaller one on the Penetrator. Also, I was told (by someone who I respected) that linotype (which is used in the Penetrator) is subject to breaking up as compared to a hardcast with a Brinnel rating of 20 or so but with less tin. Aside from that, the whole idea is to have a bullet that will not deform --- I never saw much use for a copper jacket when a hardcast will not deform.

I load my own 280 grain hardcasts (from Beartooth Bullets) in a 629-4 5" Classic now, but if I didn't reload I'd probably buy some heavy, hardcast ammo from Buffalo Bore or Randy Garrett or Federal and call it good. These will shoot higher than 240 grain ammo so be sure and re-sight in your 629.

In about 1991, S&W "toughened up" the 44 Mag N frame a bit for these heavy loads, but, my old 29-2 never suffered any from heavy loads; with limited use.

 

[team sidewinder]

Thanks for your input guys, I really appreciate it. For me it is always good to be able to call on those with more experience than I rather than use the trial & error method and find out the hard way. The linotype lead vs hard cast lead bullet makes good sense to me and think I will lean in the Garret "light" load direction.

I do carry bear spray and I am sure in a panic situation if the wind were right I could hit a bear better with the spray rather than the pistol. LOL.
Again Thanks

 

[team sidewinder]

Welcome team sidewinder,

Others will tell you more about that load as I do not have that experiance. But I live in NW MT myself and say you have made a wise chioce, in my opinion, to go to a 44 mag.

I personally feel that a 44 mag is a little light to take down a charging griz, but I also carry a 5" 629 and hope I never have to use it. I do carry bear spray in the belief that it is faster and easier to use and will give me the time needed to use my 44 mag effectively.

Just some encouragement, buy some bear spray too.



John

John. If you don't mind me asking what are you carring in your 5" 629 ? You would probably have a better chance of running into a " BIG ' bear in your neck of the woods than I would here in SW Montana.

Saw a mountain lion last year when shed antler hunting so another reason to be carring a 44 mag. We shed antler hunt north of Yellowstone so there is always a chance of running into a bear there.

Thanks for the welcome.
Lee

 

[jspick]

Lee,

I have a different take on bullets and will say why,BUT I do not want to start a "bear thread" here.

Please those of you who have different opinions, please state them as that. I am not here to argue with anyone!

I use a well made 240 grain jacketed bullet. I do agree that a heavier bullet is better. That can not be argued. I prefer well made jacketed bullet that will penetrate as well as expand. The more tissue damage done the better. It is "my opinion" that hardcast that will not deform is like shooting a full metal jacket. You can penetrate but little tissue damage. Regular soft lead bullets deform too easily and do not penetrate enough, so the case for hard cast is rightfully made here.

This is my mindset on how I carry in the woods. A 629 and bear spray just because you never know. A 12ga. with slugs and bear spray if I think there is a real chance on a confrontation.
So when I carry a 629 what I am saying is if I am smart I will take protection. When I carry a 12ga. I am saying I might just run into something and I want all the firepower I can use.

There are rifles that are better, no doubt. My 12ga. has slug barrel on it and a 2 shot extension on it. I also put a "Tactical" stock on it to make the stock adjustable for my wife or me or different thickness of clothing as the weather might me hot and sunny in the morning and almost snowing in the afternoon. I want the gun to be user friendly. A pump action 870 because most people can use a pump faster that any other type gun.

My son was charged by a 450lb grizzly cub in 2002 when he was 15 yrs old. Without writing a book of why and so on. I will say he had a Rem. 870 20ga. with slugs in it. The bear came at him behind the chicken coop. At less than 20 yards he pulled up and shot into the front of the bear. A quick second shot put another slug through the lung and liver. The first shot broke the collar bone and split, (a case for a well made bullet is made here OR well made slugs and not the foster type we had in the gun), in two pieces destroying both lungs and both pieces were under the hide on the far side of the bear.
The bear was still alive a full 5 minutes after being shot. They are very tough animals. My son was very lucky the bear did not continue on towards him. He had two more shots but......... The bear turned and went up the mountain 100 yards before stopping.

It was determined that my son shot in self defense and no charges filed. Google "Daniel Pickar Grizzly Bear" you should find several articles on the incident.

That is only "charging" incident with "grizzlies" we have had in over 20 years here. We had 10 different grizzly bears in our front yard eating apples from our tree this fall! We do all we can not to put ourselves in a bad situation living here but we have had a few tense moments!

There are several good ways to protect yourself, but only 1 bad way and that is not to do anything!

Regards to all for listening, John

 

[team sidewinder]

A good read on your son John. Thanks. Pretty impressive for a person so young. I only hope I can react like that if the time ever comes for a person so old.

 

[TDC]

I usually don't respond to posts like this one but as a long term big game hunter using handguns I believe I can add a perspective.

Over three+ decades of hunting black bear and elk and harvesting several of each species, and being present when many others were taken, I've come to some conclusions.

For really large animals (400lbs + for bear and large mature bull elk) the 41mags and the 44's are marginal at best. An adrenaline charged animal of each species is one tenacious critter that must be observed to fully appreciate... A bears speed (even a huge black bear) when in fear or when it deems itself to be aggressively challenged is almost beyond human comprehension.

When I read about someone considering having two options (spray can and/or gun) to turn or kill a charging Grizzly or Brown I have to shudder.... The grizzlies and Browns tend to be ambushing animals and if wounded or pissed there is rarely time to get one shot off, let alone try the pepper spray and if that doesn't work, try to use the barely adequate handgun.... I've been up close and personal with several angry large black bear and never observed one taking the time to sniff me, or for that matter, be moving slow enough to have something like pepper spray matter.

Returning to the OP's question about loads. Trying to increase the capacity of an N frame 44 mag to that of a 500 is futile and highly unfair to the gun itself. It was never designed for anything remotely like that. The gun was designed and functions best, both on game and for longevity, using loads typical to common factory magnum ammo.

We all need to realize that more is not necessarily better when it comes to accuracy and typical hunting performance. Shot placement and accuracy is the most important factor, especially with a handgun. Delivered energy is the second most important. Adequate penetration tends to be the third, IMO.

If we are hunting or have a serious possibility of being confronted by an extremely dangerous animal like a Grizzly or a Brown, we've gotta suit the firearm to the animal rather than choose a firearm that suits us. I switched to a S&W 500 three years ago to move from the barely adequate to the adequate for that reason. I love the 44's and the 41's and history proves they will do the job... but when my hides at stake the 500 will do it just that much better....

JMHO

 

[jspick]

TDC,
Very well said!

Lee,
I'm not sure I could have done so well either. I tend to think there were some guardian angels there. We did tease him after the fact that we had to wash his shorts 3 times just to get them clean! LOL

John

 

[TDC]

jspick -- You've obviously "been there, done that" with these animals. As you well explained, the need to truly understand what you may be confronted with creates a whole different attitude concerning how to prepare for it....

team sidewinder,

I should have added in a prior post that my current favorite "woods" gun is a 5" 629-6 Classic. To me they are the perfect handgun choice for use in the lower 48 states, and an exceptional product from S&W.

The issue of longevity has been a controversial issue for years, if not decades, for the N frame 44 mags. The solution is to keep your bullet weight below 250 grains and your powder charges at a reasonable level -- if you were to hand-load.

I'd like to recommend a powder charge to you but each 629 performs differently. It is enough to require working up loads to meet the accuracy and velocity level for best hunting performance. That is for hand-loaded ammo...

The same process applies for factory loaded ammo... Each manufacturers ammo will act differently in your gun, even identical guns from the same manufacturer. You'll need to try them all to find which you gun likes best.

Avoid all the hottest ammo intended and designed for other guns. You'll quickly discover your 629 will perform equally as a hunting gun with other brands which are using the hotter ammo and heavier bullets, and whose owner is often times having trouble with recoil control and accuracy issues with those loads.

Consider "all things in moderation" with your outstanding 629 and you'll have the benefit of a lifetime of dependable service..

Just sayin'

 

[team sidewinder]

Thank you again even more for the added information.

This 44 mag is about all the pistol recoil I could handle while the S&W 500 recoil would be too much for this old man. I will be sticking to some ammo ( what ever it ends being ) the 629 can shoot without damage or be excessive to the gun. I have waited and saved a long time to get this gun. I like this pistol way too much to abuse it trying to exceed the loads it was designed for.

I don't reload anymore so my ammo choices will be limited something factory.

Lee

 

[C J]

I have been stalked by a black bear and threatened by another both at close ranges. The stalker got within about 10 feet of me on a mountain side with a very narrow section of trail in front of me and my wife that would have led us down to another level. I know that bear was waiting for us to hit that spot. It was close enough I could smell it. I heard it shadowing us behind some thick brush (think western Virginia where the mountain laurel and rhododendron are really super thick). I had also seen fresh signs on the trail (from that morning obviously) so I knew there was a bear close. And I had left my .45 in the truck because it was in a state park where they didn't want you carrying a gun of course. The thing is they didn't stop people from feeding those bears and making them think people are food vending machines where you get to eat the machine if it's empty.

My wife and I reversed course when we saw what we were getting into. We made lots of noise so the bear knew we were leaving and enough to make it wonder if we were dangerous to it.

The bottom line is the best gun is the one you have in your hand at the time. And wow did I wish I had one at that time. I won't go back to that park and I won't go into the woods now without a gun (.44 magnum at least). My initial experiences were when bears first came to my area. I scared off the second bear with a pack of firecrackers after scaring it out of my neighbor's grain barrel which it didn't like one bit. It stood and stared at me for a couple of minutes when I went for a pack of firecrackers in the building. I wasn't sure I could make it to my front door without something to scare that bear.

I did a LOT of reading about bear defense after that. Bears were showing up in my yard every night until I figured out what was going on. I stopped feeding my dog out in the yard after that. They were eating his food not more than 10 yards from the house.

What I came up with was that a .44 magnum was pretty effective against black bears with the right ammo. No soft points or hollow points. Hard cast bullets are best. I use Buffalo Bore 255 gr. "reduced recoil" ammo because it will work in all .44 magnums including my 629-2. Heavier loads for .44 mag.s are made for Rugers and other similar revolvers. They aren't the best hunting rounds but they are best for charging bears when you have to nail a bear in the head and hope you penetrate his thick skull.

So if you really want to use heavier bullets a different gun is probably in order. I love my 629 because it's very accurate and reliable as long as I don't abuse it with heavy loads. From what I've read the hard cast bullets I'm using are fine for black bear if you hit them where it counts of course. I don't know why people always mention that because IMO it goes without saying. You can't kill anything if you miss it with your shot. Bullet selection and the ability to work quickly under pressure are very important considerations.

 

[Jitterbug]

I've read that John Linebaugh, (sp) uses a Smith and Wesson 4" .45 Colt, with a 300 grain H.C. loaded to 1100 fps as bear medicine when in Elk camp in what I assume to be the Northern Rockies.

John obviously has the wherewithal and experience to use whatever he wants. Including his .475 and .500 Linebaugh's, I've also read he has done extensive penetration testing with heavy hard cast bullets.

For dangerous animals over 400-500 pounds, I won't argue for a second that there are better choices, such as heavier calibers with heavier and faster bullets then what a 4" or 5" 629, with 280 grain WFNGC bullet doing 1150 fps, or a heavier, slightly slower bullet is capable of. I figure the 280's I use are just going to be just that much easier on the gun.

But for the sake of having the gun on my person ALL of the time, this is about as big a gun as I can handle on my hip, especially with a can of bear spray dangling from the other.

If I know as in seeing sign that Grizz or Moose are around, I'm getting out of there, the above is just minimal insurance, along with bear spray in potential Grizz country.

Like I said if I KNOW one is around I ain't going with a 4" 629.

Here in Colorado, Moose on the river bottoms are currently my biggest concern, I've since given up on fishing many streams in many parts of this state. I just don't need or want the excitement or attention if I ever had to defend myself, assuming of course I'd even be successful.

We do have large black bears, habituated to humans and I do short hikes in their teritory all the time, as it's close to where I live. I don't get to concerned about them since blacks usually are not aggressive and if need be the 260/280 grain BTB would probably be effective if I can hold up my end of the deal.

I doubt if I'll wear the gun out shooting that 280 gr. BTB load for work up, accuracy and zero, along with occasionally running a cylinder through it now and again. And I'm sure the same can be said for the factory offerings that are designed for S&W revolvers.

And if wear it out, I'll either get it fixed or purchase another.

Jspick, I've seen your bear photo's and read about your son, man your in a different world then mine. That 12 gauge setup you have is interesting, good idea on that stock.

The inlaws have a ranch we get up to from time to time on the border up in the Panhandle but the Grizz population is a bit lighter up there, and probably will be for the rest of my lifetime.

 

[jspick]

Jitterbug,

Where we live, up next to the nat'l forest, is totally different that being 1/2 mile further away. I sometimes get tired of it,(when it is snowing!!! ha ha) but other times when I go to town---I'm glad I live here!
------------------------------------------

Lots of good ideas posted here. I would like to add that if I do get charged and if I HAVE the opportunity to draw my gun and think about a shot I would shoot in front of the bear to try and stop the charge, with my bear spray in the other hand ready to use. An then use a fatal shot if I had to.
From some of the videos I have seen and stories I have heard that a shot in front of a charging bear will stop them more times than not. The legal issues of shooting a animal in self defense can be a real hassel. Just food for thought.

John

 

[vytoland]

welcome to S&W. glad you are here.

 

[amazingflapjack]

just a thought...

A 1006 loaded with hard cast LSWC's to the level of a 41 Mag, or some of the loads the guys on that forum hunt with or, a Desert Eagle in 44 Mag or .50, any of the above, fitted with a sighting system that is fast-and easy to re-acquire, for quick, multiple follow up hits. A red dot or laser possibly, as target fixation would probably be a certain factor in the case of large bears. That, and a family size "spray and Wash" for the afforementioned laundry concerns! Flapjack.

 

[jspick]

LOL LOL LOL

 

[team sidewinder]

This gun probably won't see more than 60-80 rounds through it in its lifetime with me anyway because at my age ( 65 ) it will be more of a packer rather a shooter. So even a few 300 gr cast bullets shouldn't hurt it I wouldn't think.

 

[Jitterbug]

Team sidewinder, If it hasn't already been mentioned, I'd probably choose this load if it were me and I didn't reload.

Garrets 310 grain Defender load.

Garrett Cartridges Inc.