Night vision

[Dado]

Thanks to "oneyeopn" for letting me know that I posted in the wrong spot, so this is a repost of my question of yesterday..

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I want to try hunting with night vision and am looking at some cool looking setups on a particular site... camp-hunt-shoot.com.

The only problem is that I have no experience at all with night vision and was wondering if I could get an independent opinion on what the best value for money unit might be.

Has anyone had any experience with this stuff and a minute to give me some advice?

Thanks!

 

[rburg]

Its generally assumed there are no good deals for your money. If someone else is paying, the sky is the limit. Particularly if the other side is trying to kill you.

The old assumption was if you get a first generation Monocular, you'll play with it for a few nights, then put it away. By the end of the first month, you will have gotten it out a half dozen times, then you'll forget it. I can't speak to any other uses after that, mine's still long forgotten and given to a son so he doesn't waste any of his money on one.

The cheap Russian ones only allow you to see out maybe 100 feet at best. Borrow one if you can, it will teach you to forget the idea.

Mine did teach me something I never knew. I got home from the gun show and took it out of the box. I'd already read about how to use it. So I headed to the basement door and closed it behind me. Utter darkness, but the green glow made the dungeon look just like the spooky movies. And out in front of me was Momma's attack cat, Kitty. She bravely headed across the floor toward my gun room. When we got past all the useless stuff like the laundry room and furnace, the basement on that house opened up into a pretty big room.

That's when I realized I hadn't even tried the IR flashlight on the thing. So I reached up with the other hand and flicked on the switch. The instand the light came on, Kittycat jumped about a foot in the air and swung around to look at me. The conclusion? Cats see IR light. Its how they see in the dark. And its the only thing I really got out of my $100. I have no clue what my younger son has discovered in his 2 years of ownership.

Night vision is one of those cool things that is over hyped, but when you get it, you're disappointed. Kind of like national politics.

 

[armadillo]

A couple of years ago, I bought a 1st gen ATN 4x riflescope for about $400 and it works as advertised.

They said the IR illuminator is good for 65 yards (and that is it). I mounted it on a 223 because you have to put your eye too close to it for any hard kicking rifle. I have been able to shoot 2-2 1/2" 3-shot groups at 100 yards (the target had a large white background so I could pick it up.) I shot a jackrabbit and a hog with it last year and plan to take it out more this year.

Check your local laws. In Texas it is OK to shoot at night with lights on private land - except during deer season.

 

[Gunslinger808]

Rather than retype all of it over:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-rifle/240494-hunting-night-vision.html

 

[GatorFarmer]

Are you going to want a stand alone optic, or one to use in conjunction with another optic?

Do you have, or will you use, an IR illimunator/laser in targeting?

What do you want to shoot? Does it shoot back? Does it have IR treated gear or it's own gear to look for IR illuminators?

Do you need or want to be able to see through smoke/fog/haze/camo?

I used to have a PVS-14, relatively late model, Gen III stuff. It offered a versatile range of options. You want one made by ITT, not ATN. Three or four grand. Or about four grand will get you into a surplus military issue thermal weapon's sight. (Really nice clip on TWS units can be had, but run about 21K...) I got a deal on my PVS, traded an IMBEL FAL clone and a bunch of mags for it. Later ended up selling it since I never used it much.

You can easily use a PVS-14 with an appropriate
Aimpoint or Eotech unit, with or without the magnifier. Or you can use it as a goggle (on use the ANPVS-7Deltas) worn from your headgear and in conjunction with an IR laser or illuminator.

These won't work in terms of being able to see through cover, smoke, etc. Nor will they work against camo - natural or man made. With their built in IR illuminators, they will work on totally dark nights, but that will reveal you to anyone or anything that can see IR .

I'm still working on getting my PAS-13 mounted (another member helped with a mount, still need the right screws). That's a Thermal sight, those are good night and day, though mine is just a two color unit and not one of the more colorful FLIR units. It's about the size of a Desert Storm era "starlight" scope and was state of the art circa late 2005, since outmoded by the much smaller/lighter clip on units. You can probably find one at Knob Creek. These see through fog, light cover, camo and work day or night equally well. The military units will have a built in aiming recticle and optional magnified zoom.

I got mine from a guy who had indeed bought it at Knob Creek. He used it to hunt Bigfoot. (Apparently Bigfoot can see in the IR spectrum... Shrug.)

You have to a U.S. citizen and agree not to export any of the good stuff. For the IR illuminators/lasers you'll need to either get FDA permission (they regulate lasers) or else look for a gray market item sold off as surplus.

 

[msinc]

I have three night vision weapon sights and one thermal unit. I hunt predators in Maryland and at my cabin in Virginia. As far as NV goes you want U.S. made 3rd generation with IR illuminators. The illuminators greatly improve what you can see as well as make the animals eyes glow. When hunting at night it is really nice to see the bullet impact so you know whether or not you hit the animal or need to take a follow up shot. I have all my scopes on 22 magnum semi autos. Ruger 10-22 magnums, and one is a Volquartsen copy. I have big effective flash hiders on the guns because without them you get enough muzzle flash to temporarilly blink out the tube for a split second. That split second happens to be the one that includes bullet impact. You cannot see any flash with the naked eye but there is enough to affect the NV scope. If you need to shoot more rifle than a 22 magnum dont worry about a follow up shot because recoil will guarantee you wont get one.
I have a thermal weapon sight and dont like it as well as the NV. The problem is that you are seeing heat and it "burns thru" underbrush so you cant see it. The view appears like a clear shot but the animal will often be behind alot of brush or small branches that can hinder the shot. The other thing I dont like with thermal is that if you a trying to follow a moving animal you will loose the image. Thermal takes a split second longer than NV to draw an image and when moving the gun to follow an animal the image is almost always lost. By the time you slow down to draw an image, see where the animal went, loose image again getting back on him, wait for image again to hopefully shoot he is gone or too far away. The third thing I dont like about thermal is the price...about double the money for NV.
Back to NV for a second, I have never had a wild animal spook over the infra red illuminators very slight glow. One final tip...dont worry too much about a Class A tube vs. Class B. The B tubes are not accepted by the military because they have small black spots in the tube. A's are perfectly clear when new. The black spots dont detract or hinder the use of the scope at all and generally the A tubes develop spots sooner or later. The Class A tubes are hard to get and expensive. Not the best bang for your buck. And finally, dont short change yourself with NV. Wait until you can afford a U.S. made 3 rd gen scope or use a red spot light. You will not be happy at all wasting money on russian junk.

 

[8000fthi]

I have a PVS 14 genIII mounted behind an eotech that can be used with NV, about $4k. It is mounted on a fn PS90, for SHTF. I can take the NV off and hand hold it or head mount it. It is ITT not the Russian ATN junk. There is not such a thing as cheap NV that is any good. I use my head mounted NV to drive the ATV before day light when elk hunting, it is great.

 

[msinc]

"It is ITT not the Russian ATN junk."

Not all ATN is russian. In fact if it is 2nd or 3rd gen it has an American tube.

 

[Faulkner]

I've had several sets for law enforcement use and here is what I've learned . . . if they don't cost at least 2 grand, they are probably not worth owning. I paid $3,500 for my current set, but man, are they awesome.