No.4 Mk.I* does not fire properly

[Naphtali]

Here's an off-the-walll question. Maybe I'll get lucky.

I received a Canadian made No.4 Mk.I* rifle as a freebie thrown into a trade. While I have nothing invested, it would be nice if I were able to shoot it. Because it was not included in trade, just kind've tossed in, I did not test it in any way at the time. It is now a couple of weeks later and I went to futz with it. I removed bolt, had a look at bore and bolt, inserted bolt, cocked-on-closing, and pulled the trigger. Cocking piece dropped to a half-cock or a safe position indicating a malfunction. By retracting bolt enough to relax cocking and holding trigger to its trigger-pulled position, I can fully drop cocking piece to its fired position. The action was at rest when I began futzing with it. I cannot say whether it was non-function when I got it, or whether I have been working the mechanism incorrectly.

Please identify the problem. How can I fix it, preferably without requiring gunsmith or significant investment?

 

[kennethg]

I got a savage made No4 MK1* several years ago. I replace the missing extractor and extractor spring and got it working. the enfields can be quirky. I do enjoy reloading for mine and firing it.

the below links might be helpful

Enfield-Rifles.com

The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum [Archive] - Page 18 - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I had a Canadian too.

My tip is regarding reloading the 303 British. Neck size the cases because full length sizing wears out the brass quicker. Enfield actions tend to have "headspace" issues.

 

[2152hq]

First see if the rifles Safety will easily engage in the SAFE position (Rear) with the Bolt/Striker cocked.

If it does and in doing so, the Striker Head should move very slightly backwards as the Safety comes to full SAFE engagement.
That is the Safety camming the Striker off/out of engagement with the Sear all together

If the Safety cannot be engaged at this full cocked position, then likely the cocking piece has been altered or the Safety itself is not properly assembled and installed.

Take the Bolt assembly out of the rifle and have a look at the cocking piece/sear edge.
The front edge is the engagement surface for the rifles Sear.
It should be absolutely clean and flat.
If it looks worked over in any way it may be shortened in both length and height.
OAL would make the engagement of the Saftey difficult or impossible.
Cutting down the height of the engagement surface (sometimes tinkered with to get a better trigger pull) can make for the issue you are having.
...The bolt appears to (full) cock. Pulling the trigger drops the striker but is caught at 1/2 cock.
This is because the Sear is sitting higher than designed as the Sear engagement surface has been cut down.
..It's also possible that the engagement tip of the Sear itself has been altered, shortened, worn. Or both conditions exist.

..Then pulling the striker back off of the 1/2cock notch and again pulling the trigger all the way back allows the striker to follow all the way down to the Fired position.

When you go and read info on these Brit rifles, their terminology for a Sear 'Notch' is a 'Bent'.
So it'd be a Full Cock Bent for instance that they'd be addressing.
The Canadian Commonwealth Longbranch Arsenal built #4's are very nice rifles, well built.

That's about all I can think of now...

 

[GypsmJim]

I had a Canadian too.

My tip is regarding reloading the 303 British. Neck size the cases because full length sizing wears out the brass quicker. Enfield actions tend to have "headspace" issues.

Good idea if you only have one. In my case, since I have several I need to FLS or they won't fit universally.

Long ago when I started collecting milsurps I realized that I need some head space gauges to ensure safety. The beauty is that Enfield head space can easily be changed with a simple replacement of the bolt head. They are numbered by size. If it doesn't pass muster, simply put on a different head.

The rest of the story is that I learned long ago that the gunsmith cost to check head space far exceeds the cost of the silly little gauge.

 

[LVSteve]

+1 on everything 2152hq said. I have been very fortunate with my Enfields that so far I've yet to get one that suffered from ill advised 'smithing.

The ZF marked rifle I own with a headspace best measured using thick books was likely never heat treated properly. The barrel is close to mint. Such was the wartime production at the Fazakerley factory.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The massive "Free Bore" and massive shoulder foreword movement isn't a bad headspace! It is intentional space for lessons learned in the muddy trenches of WWI. To do away with it and make a non-combat/match only weapon requires a virgin barrel. Combat weapons were not made with reloading in mind.

If you insist on FL sizing reloads, you will need a "Stuck Case Remover" (American name) I have both 303 British models and 30-06 models, the 06 models will work on both. Another way to remove a stuck (headless) case is to use a very large screwdriver at least 8"long. Remove bolt and jab the screwdriver in with pretty great force, give a slight twist and pull straight back. Repeat as needed. (I never needed a third try.)

My expierance indicated American Boxer Primed Brass (WW) lasts 5 reloads before head separation.

I started reloading with a Lee Loader in 303 British in 1979. That way is neck size only, and I didn't learn the problems with head separation until I started FL sizing with RCBS 7/8-14 dies on a real press.

Ivan

 

[Exmilcop]

Another method of removing a stuck case is to get a round tapered wood rasp. Push that into the casing and start to rotate it. It'll grab the brass and the just pull it out. Thankfully, having cut my teeth on Lee Enfields, I have the case extractor..

 

[Buick]

If I remember correctly the safety can be installed "clocked" out of its correct position. I would remove it and re-install making sure it is correctly assembled.

 

[2152hq]

If I remember correctly the safety can be installed "clocked" out of its correct position. I would remove it and re-install making sure it is correctly assembled.

That is correct.
The two parts move together on an 8-point screw thread engagement.

Meaning you can engage the Safety lever (they call it the Safety Bolt) into the Safety Catch (the smaller part that actually engages the Striker) in any one of 8 different starting thread points.

But the Safety will only function correctly as a Safety if the 2 parts are assembled right.

Screwed together, andviewing the assembly from the backside of it,,the smaller Safety Catch should sit with it's 'arm' extending at the 11 o'clock position to the Safety Bolt(Lever).

With it in that assembled position, just insert it into the recv'r and follow up with the Spring and retention screw.

Check for proper install,,it should allow the bolt to function freely in the Fire position obviously,,but also lock the bolt shut when placed on SAFE with the bolt cocked.

It's easy to get these out of time durin assembly by one thread one way or the other, and then get the bolt locked up or other obvious issues.
Simply remove the assembly again and re-clock the 2 parts back together and give it a go once more.

 

[GypsmJim]

The massive "Free Bore" and massive shoulder foreword movement isn't a bad headspace! It is intentional space for lessons learned in the muddy trenches of WWI. To do away with it and make a non-combat/match only weapon requires a virgin barrel. Combat weapons were not made with reloading in mind.

If you insist on FL sizing reloads, you will need a "Stuck Case Remover" (American name) I have both 303 British models and 30-06 models, the 06 models will work on both. Another way to remove a stuck (headless) case is to use a very large screwdriver at least 8"long. Remove bolt and jab the screwdriver in with pretty great force, give a slight twist and pull straight back. Repeat as needed. (I never needed a third try.)

My expierance indicated American Boxer Primed Brass (WW) lasts 5 reloads before head separation.

I started reloading with a Lee Loader in 303 British in 1979. That way is neck size only, and I didn't learn the problems with head separation until I started FL sizing with RCBS 7/8-14 dies on a real press.

Ivan

Good info. I don't shoot 303 as much as the others. I just checked my two boxes of 50 rounds of WW brass, and both have been reloaded 4 times.

I don't recall ever having reloading problems. I DO appropriately lube the cases.

In my youth I used to buy surplus ammo because of the cheap price. After a box of 303 made with cordite (you know the click-boom) I started wit loading my own.

 

[2152hq]

303 will last as long as any other brass if you take the time to form the brass to the individual rifle chamber..that means headspacing it off the shoulder and not the case rim as it is designed.

That also means segregating the cases for each rifle if you have more than one. Plus when reloading, Neck Size only and don't push that newly formed shoulder. That is what is keeping the case from the excessive stretching each firing when FL Sized.

I run the 303 cases into an 8mm Mauser sizer/expander die to expand the necks to the 8mm dia.
The sizer never touches the 303 case.

The 303 case with the over size neck is then neck sized in a 303B die a little at a time,,pushing the proper neck dia back down into place and leaving the slightly oversize 8mm neck below it in place.
When the case will chamber in a specific rifle with some 'feel' to the bolt, I stop there. It's now HS'd betw the base of the cartridge and the small 8mm false shoulder in the 303 chamber.
The 303 rim is out of the picture. It is HS'd just as a rimless cart would be.

Those cases are then loaded to that spec with that neck sizing only and for that rifle only.
No brass stretching, no case head separation.

I keep one or two of the empty but sized cases with the false 8mm shoulder for each of the Enfields I shoot and marked for the specific rifles.
4 rifles only now.
It's a pain to re-adj the sizer to reload for a different rifle. A second set of dies helps.
Two of the rifles seem to be in the same spec,,, 2 BSA commercial sale Enfields. So it's really not that bad.

The 303 military chambers are generous, the Military Specs for HeadSpace are different than the commercial specs.
Reloading was not in the cards when they designed the rifles for the Military. They just had to work.
Reloading the 303 for a Ross rifle can bring it's own problems as the chambers can be generous in diameter as well as headspace length. Sometimes to a rediculous degree to try and make the straightpull rifle work in the trench warfare conditions. Pushing those cases back into factory shape by sizing really limits their life.

 

[LVSteve]

Full disclosure: I don't reload, but I picked this up off the Enfield forum at Gunboards.

One trick with SMLEs and their offspring is to do the first firing of a commercial round with a small O-ring on the case down by the rim. When the bolt is closed the O-ring forces the case head against the bolt. The case then fire-forms at the shoulder without any stretch at the base of the case. That case is now only good for that rifle, but with neck-sizing only for subsequent reloads, it should last better.