No 44-40 data using 2400 powder anymore?

[2152hq]

I went to reload a handfull of 44-40 cartridges to test fire a Remington 14 1/2 carbine tomorrow.
I load the round already but using American Pioneer powder for use in a Winchester 73.
I thought I'd use 2400 powder 'cause I have it,,and I thought it was listed in the manuals. It is in my older Lyman manual in the rifle section with a start load of 22gr using the 205gr cast FN bullet. Perfect I thought.

Then to make sure the old data wasn't somehow out of date or way off, I checked the website (Alliant). They don't list any loads at all for the 44-40 except one Cowboy Load using Red Dot.

Is 2400 powder not suitable for the 44-40 anymore?

I loaded a handfull using the R/Dot data. Only 850fps or so, and it'll get the testing job done. But I'll be able to watch those bullets go down range.

 

[WPD26]

They are probibly worried about the liability in that someone would shoot a 2400 load in an old Colt.

My usual load for 44-40 is 9.2 grains of Unique. I shoot this in my SAA, S&W, and both 73 and 92 rifles. I don't know the velocity but I wouldn't say it's a light load. It is accurate in all the weapons.

I wish I could find a nice 14 1/2. That's one gun that has eluded me!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I dunno why Alliant lists those loads as Cowboy loads but only shows the Max loads. No minimum is listed.

Anyhoo, I usually load 44-40 with 2.2CC of Schuetzen FFg (about 33 grains) under a 200 grain lead bullet. For Smokeless I use 7.5 grains of Unique, which is less than the max stated by Alliant.

I have never used 2400 myself. The only loads I found for it in 44-40 with a 205 grain bullet say to start with 12.0 grains and stop at 15.0 grains for a pressure of 12,400 CUP. Velocity was 974 fps out of a 6" pressure barrel in a universal receiver. This was in the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th Edition.

Dunno about that 22 grain starting load, it's more than the Max in my book.

 

[NKJ nut]

I am still using the old data for 2400 in my '92. No problems but I have sense enough not to put those loads in a gun that can't handle them.

 

[lebomm]

I've been a .44-40 fan for several years now, and IMHO, that 22 gr charge with a 205 gr. LFP is probably a bit heavy for your 14 1/2. I'd start down around 15 gr. and work up.

 

[2152hq]

Thanks for all the replies!

That 22gr of 2400 load is in the 'Rifle' section of my Lyman #44 manual. I know,,I should enter the next century,,but that's why I hesitated.
They give a max of 26gr of 2400.
This for the 205gr cast lead FN bullet.

There is a 44-40 'Handgun ' load section too in the manual. I don't have it in front of me now but I recall it was quite a bit less.
That 12gr/15gr range mentioned already sounds about what it was.

Maybe I'll try those instead first.

The carbine is just a range gun to me. I don't hunt anymore but I like something more than powderpuff loads when shooting.
Looks like the testing is off for a couple of days anyway due to unforseen circumstances. Maybe I'll load up some more rounds!
I'll take the Bisley out with it too.

This 14 1/2 had it's problems to start with. It was missing the ejector plate (Numrich actually had one), the follower would jam in the loading port and the butt plate is not the original to the wood. Mechanically it's fixed. At least my dummy rounds function fine. A trip to the range may prove otherwise! If everything works out, I'll fix up some of the cosmetic problems. At least no one tried to refinish the thing or mount a scope on it in the past. Bore is perfect on this one. Neat little rifle. I like it better than the Model 14 though it's really pretty much the same gun.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I just noticed yesterday in the new Lyman cast bullet handbook that they have 2400 data. They are giving 16.5 grns of 2400 as max for a 200 grn bullet on page 208.

The 22 grns of 2400 is for the 44 MAGNUM! on page 209.

Please check the manual for yourself to be sure.

 

[cp1969]

The Lyman #49 manual lists loads for two categories of rifle action; Group 1 (Weaker Actions) and Group 2 (Stronger Actions). The Remington 14 1/2 is listed in Group 2.

Oddly enough, it lists a load for Speer #4425 200 gr. JHP as 18.0 gr 2400 to start and 20.0 as a max load. But with the 205 gr. Lyman cast bullet, it doesn't list a load for 2400 in the Group 2 loads, but it does for Group #1!

 

[Sully]

I went to reload a handfull of 44-40 cartridges to test fire a Remington 14 1/2 carbine tomorrow.
I load the round already but using American Pioneer powder for use in a Winchester 73.
I thought I'd use 2400 powder 'cause I have it,,and I thought it was listed in the manuals. It is in my older Lyman manual in the rifle section with a start load of 22gr using the 205gr cast FN bullet. Perfect I thought.

Then to make sure the old data wasn't somehow out of date or way off, I checked the website (Alliant). They don't list any loads at all for the 44-40 except one Cowboy Load using Red Dot.

Is 2400 powder not suitable for the 44-40 anymore?

I loaded a handfull using the R/Dot data. Only 850fps or so, and it'll get the testing job done. But I'll be able to watch those bullets go down range.

I only see one load here...
44-40 Winchester Load Data - Handloads.Com

for what its worth??

 

[2152hq]

I just noticed yesterday in the new Lyman cast bullet handbook that they have 2400 data. They are giving 16.5 grns of 2400 as max for a 200 grn bullet on page 208.

The 22 grns of 2400 is for the 44 MAGNUM! on page 209.

Please check the manual for yourself to be sure.

The older manual does in fact list 22gr of 2400 as a Starting load in the 44-40 for rifle w/the 205gr LFN bullet. The max is listed at 26gr!

Good lesson there in searching out old reloading manual data. I did second guess it,,, that's how all this came about.
My brother said the load sounded like one of Elmer's old 44mag loads! Guess he was right.
In the pistol section of the older manual is a much lighter load starting at (IIRC) 12gr, going to 15gr.

Thanks for the other links to 44-40 loads. I notice they have one using Clays powder. I have that from 12ga reloading so that'll work too.
I guess I can live with velocity,,it's only paper targets anyway.
I figured the action was plenty strong, as strong as any other repeater in that caliber.
But I don't think that old loading data would have treated it too kindly though..

We tried out the RedDot loads finally and everything functioned fine. The carbine shot a bit high even with the rear site down all the way. I'm not so sure the front site is the right one anyway,,at least the action functions correctly and my fixes to the gun all worked out.
Fun gun to shoot. Not too many around I guess.

 

[haggis]

From the 1992 Hercules Reloading Guide:

2400 Powder - .44-40 rifle, 24" Barrel, Max Loads

• 200 JSP, 1.590 OAL, 14.5 2400, 1230 fps, 12500 CUP
• 240 L, 1.580 OAL, 12.0 2400, 1130 fps, 12500 CUP

Buck