No-Fly list to stop gun purchases in Massachusetts

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

The bill to add the NoFly list to the background checks in Mass is gaining strength! Even some Repubs are signing on.

Here is the letter I wrote to a bunch of reps.

Dear Representative Ross,
I am very disturbed to see that you think the late Senator Kennedy was a terrorist. After all he was on the No-fly list and therefore per the bill you are sponsoring a suspected terrorist who should not be able to buy a gun.

I am writing to object to the changes requested to the law proposed by this bill. While it sounds wonderful to stop terrorists by stopping anyone on the no-fly list or the terror watch list from buying guns, I have a question.

You would have denied Senator Teddy Kennedy from buying guns in Massachusetts! He was on the no-fly list, incorrectly and it took him, a US Senator, 3 months to get off it. I have several friends who have the same name as someone on the no-fly list and have trouble every time they try to fly. The are not terrorists but somehow got on the list.

This is not the way to protect us by denying millions the right to the 2nd Amendment. Yes there are well over a million on the list, 80% of them who pose no threat

Ben Cartwright (actually used my real address)
Ponderosa Ranch
Virgina City NV

Proposed changes

SECTION 1



Section 131 of chapter 140 of the Massachusetts General Laws, as appearing in the 2012 Official Edition, is hereby amended in subsection (d) by adding the following clauses:

(xi) is a person named on the consolidated Terrorist Watchlist maintained by Terrorist Screening Center administered by the Federal Bureau of Investigation
(xii) is on a No-Fly List administered by the United States Transportation Security Administration pursuant to 49 U.S.C. s. 44903(j)(2)(C)1


SECTION 2

Section 129B of chapter 140 of the Massachusetts General Laws, as appearing in the 2012 Official Edition, is hereby amended in subsection (a) by adding the following clauses following clause (xi):

(xii) is a person named on the consolidated Terrorist Watch list maintained by Terrorist Screening Center administered by the Federal Bureau of Investigation
(xiii) is on a No-Fly List administered by the United States Transportation Security Administration pursuant to 49 U.S.C. s. 44903(j)(2)(C)1

 

[steelslaver]

While I have no bones with stopping potential terrorist from purchasing guns, I have a serious problem with denying some one their constitutional right with a total lack of due process. No judges order or signature, just some ones vague suspicions. The no fly list has gone from 10,000 to almost 100,000 in 6 years. The Terrorist watch list is at about 1,000,000.

Not sure what it takes to get on the list or exactly how one gets on the list. Does anyone know for sure. I am sure gettting on the list is far easier than getting off the list.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

From Fox News and Huffington Post here are some of the ways to get on the list. It is very hard to get off it

1. Being linked to terrorism activity
2. Drug use
3. Travelling frequently to the wrong country
4. Error on the form
5. Having same name as someone on the list
6. As a crime
7. Controversial tweeting (I assume also facebook and forums)
8. NOT becoming an informant
9. FBI wants to talk to you about someone else

 

[keninnavarre]

Deport those on the list. Problem solved. If a US citizen on "the list" committed a crime bad enough to be black listed from commercial flights , they wouldn't be able to purchase a gun legally anyway,right?

 

[elpac3]

Controversial tweeting - now there's a hole you can never crawl out of.

Who determines what is controversial? This treads on the First Amendment.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Deport those on the list. Problem solved. If a US citizen on "the list" committed a crime bad enough to be black listed from commercial flights , they wouldn't be able to purchase a gun legally anyway,right?

There are thousands of people on the list(s) in error. Problem not solved.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Ted Kennedy was on the list and it took him 3 months to get off it.

It is a government list, what could possibly go wrong.

 

[Arik]

The biggest problem for your average person is going to be #4 and #5. And #7 can become an issue. And usually #1, 2, 6, 9 already have you as a someone who cannot LEGALLY posses firearms.

I'm not against the idea of this. Do bad things, can't fly can't buy a firearm. Great! Except that this doesn't relate to current events in any way shape or form.
-Utah college shooting
-Colorado planned parenthood
-VW tech
-Ft. Hood
-CT
-Boston Marathon
- and now San Bernardino Ca.

None of these people were on a No Fly list. That list wouldn't have save one life in any of these cases. Not one..... and chances are it won't save anyone.

What this amounts to is saying we have to fight cholesterol because people are dying of car accidents

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

What this amounts to is saying we have to fight cholesterol because people are dying of car accidents

Well we should because many fat people which can cause high colesterol can't reach the brakes!

 

[HereSinceTheLongHunters]

The problem with the list is that you can be added for any or no reason by someone who will not be identified. There is no process for appeal and no accountability for the accuser. Auto-inclusion based on membership, political affiliation, refusal to go on a date, took the guy's parking place, etc. are counter to our constitution and right to due process. Greater empowerment of the no-fly list is a one-way ticket to tyranny.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

If they do put this in I will find out how to report people and turn in all my legislators as well as any anti-gunner I know of!

 

[steelslaver]

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem denying sales to people with terrorist links, drug dealers, etc etc. But, I believe it should at least take notification, a chance to defend yourself and a court order to be deprived of a constitutional right.

It all sounds fine and good to say deport them, throw them in jail and toss the key until it is you or someone you know who is wrongly accuse. If you don't think it can happen why do we even bother with juries trials.

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

Not much to really add to what had been said. You should be allowed to buy firearms as long as you have no convictions. If the US government thinks you are a terrorist, then they should charge you and try you in federal court.

 

[keith44spl]

Oh, I would not be surprised one bit if we see another 'Fast & Ferocious'
distribution, to identify all those that want to do straw purchases and
evade and manipulate the laws of our land.

What list are they gonna use to stop the purchase of plumbing supplies, 4th of July fireworks, etc...?
And other materials used to make improvised devises, and so it goes on and on,
the political rhetoric that is.


.

 

[Bill Bates]

It makes me sad so many will willing give up rights and allow those in power to violate the US Constitution. Denying people there 2nd Amendment rights by denying them due process guaranteed under the 5th Amendment is such a slippery slope. Oh, heck it is falling off the frick'n cliff.

 

[vt_shooter]

Would it surprise any of us if a certain elected official who hates the NRA moved to put all NRA members on the do not fly list? I guess the message is buy guns while you can.

 

[CoMF]

...and this, folks, is how the antis "divide and conquer."

Let us recap why this is such a bad idea:

The suspected terrorist list is shrouded in secrecy.

The .Gov will "neither confirm nor deny" whether you're on it or not.

There is no due process involved in getting added to it, nor is there any form of appeal in getting removed for it.

In short, this is as "star chamber" as it gets.

Do you REALLY want to open the door to summary denial of our 2nd Amendment rights without due process? Do you TRULY believe such power wouldn't be abused as a form of retaliation against "political enemies"?

 

[Sconnie]

I'm not against the idea of this. Do bad things, can't fly can't buy a firearm. Great! Except that this doesn't relate to current events in any way shape or form.

I'm against the idea completely.

Great? Doing bad things and then being convicted in court for a felony and some misdemeanors such as domestic abuse is the law in most if not all States now. The no fly list has nothing to do with convictions in a court of law and due process. The very idea that a proposal to take away a citizen's 2nd amendment rights for anything less than a conviction in court is chilling.

There is no due process involved in getting added to it, nor is there any form of appeal in getting removed for it.

Do you REALLY want to open the door to summary denial of our 2nd Amendment rights without due process? Do you TRULY believe such power wouldn't be abused as a form of retaliation against "political enemies"?

Exactly! And, NO, no I don't.

 

[Arik]

I'm against the idea completely.

Great? Doing bad things and then being convicted in court for a felony and some misdemeanors such as domestic abuse is the law in most if not all States now. The no fly list has nothing to do with convictions in a court of law and due process. The very idea that a proposal to take away a citizen's 2nd amendment rights for anything less than a conviction in court is chilling.



Exactly! And, NO, no I don't.

Ok I should have been more clear. Commit a felony, get caught by police, get a lawyer, go to trial, get convicted of said felony lose rights.

 

[ladder13]

Ted Kennedy was on the list and it took him 3 months to get off it.

It is a government list, what could possibly go wrong.

I woudn't want ol' Chappaquidick Ted flying a plane either.