Non Mystery Aircraft Thread

THE PILGRIM

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A couple weeks ago when I was over at Pima, I was surprised to see The aft end of a B-52 displayed. It made me think of some B-52 gunners that I have known. In the earlier model B-52s like the ones I flew in, the gunner flew in the rear of the airplane. The later models, G and H brought the gunner upfront.
The rear gunner compartment was separately pressurized from the front crew compartment.
Back in those days, we used to fly 24 hour airborne alert missions. That meant that our Gunner, John Burch was confined to that rear gunner compartment for 25-26 hours. The front part of the plane wasn't all that homey and the rear compartment was very confining.
After those long missions, John would climb out looking tired.
 

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I have never figured out why if the only gun you are going to put on a bomber is a tail gun? why on earth would a fighter pilot attack a bomber from the rear where the only gun is at?

it is amazing that the B-52 has been around so long and still going strong
 
on Guam back in 73-74 I was driving in to work one morning and noticed the guns on one of the alert birds tracking me as I drove by. when I got to work I called the SAC command post and told them the tail number and they said the crew must have left some power on or something. kind of scary. we had so many BUFFs there then that some had to be in the air at all times in order to park, load and refuel the others for their upcoming missions. I think we launched a three ship cell every 13 minutes for a long time. lee
 
While in the USAF, I saw many B-52's and guarded some, although I was primarily assigned to base patrol and to protecting classified assets in certain buildings, like the Air Intelligence School and the Nuclear Weapons School.

I was always impressed to see those big birds lumber aloft.

At Goose Bay AFB, Labrador, I saw Vulcans launch from the RAF side of the base and was amazed at how quickly they got their noses up and climbed fast. It was quite a contrast to the B-52's.

I feel sorry for that tail gunner. He must have felt pretty miserable much of the time.

Someone raised the question about having only tail guns in bombers. That's bothered me, too. And I read that German fighters often decided to attack Allied bombers head-on even though they then had more guns, inc. some in the nose and top turrets that could engage incoming fighters. The RAF crews were stuck with .303's and they seem to have wished for the more effective .50's of the US bombers. Even though most of their missions were at night, the heavier guns were logically wanted.

I think Lemay started this tail gun-only business after seeing B-29's damage other US aircraft by firing carelessly over Japan.

Of course, other US bombers retained their heavier armament and B-25's in particular often conducted strafing missions with extra guns mounted on the forward fuselage. One variant even housed a 75mm cannon that John Masters said was very impressive when fired. He was on a US B-25 over Burma to study the ground before committing to an offensive and the crew fired that big banger.

Japanese sometimes classified the gun-bristling B-17 as a four-engined fighter!

I realize that the B-52 and other later US bombers do not have that mission, sometimes low level attacks like the B-25's made in strafing and skip bombing. But I bet the crews wish for at least a top turret.

Navy bombers in Vietnam also needed guns. An A-6 Intruder pilot who became a successful novelist said that he often wished for a gun. He could have engaged targets on the ground as well as defended better if Phantom cover aircraft weren't where needed when MiG's showed up. That was of course, Stephen Coonts. I recommend his books.

The first, "Flight of the Intruder", also became a really good movie.

I'd feel vulnerable in a big bomber, having to stay on course as FLAK and missiles and fighters came my way. I'm more oriented to being a fighter pilot. Kind of academic, as my actual weapons were a pistol and a night stick...rarely, a carbine or an M-16 as well, or a shotgun. My only flying has been as a passenger. But it is sort of exhilarating.
 
I have never figured out why if the only gun you are going to put on a bomber is a tail gun? why on earth would a fighter pilot attack a bomber from the rear where the only gun is at?

it is amazing that the B-52 has been around so long and still going strong

I think that both it and the A-10 are just as evolved as need be and still keep on keeping on. But I'm glad that we have the B-1 and B-2, also.
 
I think that both it and the A-10 are just as evolved as need be and still keep on keeping on. But I'm glad that we have the B-1 and B-2, also.

The AF sure doesn't like the A-10. They are fighting congress and the Army to get it relegated to the boneyard. It is a wonderful CAS plane. Maybe that is the problem.
 
The AF sure doesn't like the A-10. They are fighting congress and the Army to get it relegated to the boneyard. It is a wonderful CAS plane. Maybe that is the problem.

They never wanted it to begin with and have tried to get rid of it for years. They wanted to use the F-16 for CAS when it was the new hot girl on the block. Now they want the money spent on keeping A-10 viable/flyable to go for the latest hot new girl, the F-25.
 
on Guam back in 73-74 I was driving in to work one morning and noticed the guns on one of the alert birds tracking me as I drove by. when I got to work I called the SAC command post and told them the tail number and they said the crew must have left some power on or something. kind of scary. we had so many BUFFs there then that some had to be in the air at all times in order to park, load and refuel the others for their upcoming missions. I think we launched a three ship cell every 13 minutes for a long time. lee

My guess Would be if the guns were actually tracking you, somebody was inside there operating them.
Could have been a Gunner but more likely a Fire Control Systems Tech.
The older systems like the one shown had an optical and a radar fire control. That's the optics behind the covers located under the bulge near the top.
The Tech was probably doing some kind of calibration or maintenance procedure where he wanted a moving target.
You were that moving target.
 
You gotta remember....

I have never figured out why if the only gun you are going to put on a bomber is a tail gun? why on earth would a fighter pilot attack a bomber from the rear where the only gun is at?

it is amazing that the B-52 has been around so long and still going strong

You gotta remember when the B-52 was designed and what the capabilities of the interceptors and their weaponry was back then. The Germans figured out in WWII to attack a B-17 they were safest and likely to get a pilot kill if the came from directly in front of the plane.
 
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You gotta remember when the B-52 was designed and what the capabilities of the interceptors were back then. The Germans figured out in WWII to attack a B-17 they were safest and likely to get a pilot kill if the came from directly in front of the plane.

I think you are pretty much on the money. When the interceptors only had guns they had to move in for a kill.
Then when they got missiles, just about every missile anybody ever used have more range then a 50cal or 20 mm.
Early early B-52s had two 20 mm. The latest models B-52s had a Gatling Gun. In the middle, 4- 50 cal Brownings.
 
I have never figured out why if the only gun you are going to put on a bomber is a tail gun? why on earth would a fighter pilot attack a bomber from the rear where the only gun is at?

it is amazing that the B-52 has been around so long and still going strong

FWIW, the Air Force Academy has a B-52 on a stick, Diamond Lil. It is the only B-52 that shot down a Mig in Vietnam.
 
Pima is a cool place..

A couple weeks ago when I was over at Pima, I was surprised to see The aft end of a B-52 displayed.


The rear gunner compartment was separately pressurized from the front crew compartment.
Back in those days, we used to fly 24 hour airborne alert missions. That meant that our Gunner, John Burch was confined to that rear gunner compartment for 25-26 hours. The front part of the plane wasn't all that homey and the rear compartment was very confining.
After those long missions, John would climb out looking tired.

Pima is NOT a cool place. It's hot as hell. The planes...they're cool.

I wonder why John looked tired?:confused::D
 
Pima is NOT a cool place. It's hot as hell. The planes...they're cool.

I wonder why John looked tired?:confused::D

You don't go there in the middle of the summer. You go like right now.
Three weeks ago The weather was almost short sleeve pleasant.
You you insist on going to South Arizona in the summer, they will cancel your smart card!
 
here are a couple of pics of D models. taken at Anderson AFB, Guam in 73 or 74. these are pictures of pictures. lee
 

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FWIW, the Air Force Academy has a B-52 on a stick, Diamond Lil. It is the only B-52 that shot down a Mig in Vietnam.
There were actually 2 confirmed mig kills by B-52 tail gunners over Vietnam. There were at least three more claimed but never verified. Most of the B52s there were were D models but a few F and G models were there as well. I was a crew chief on an H model with SAC at Kincheloe AFB in Northern Michigan. We had the 20 MM Vulcan in the tail and the gunner had a seat in the front with the rest of the crew. I remember that wen they loaded the ammo for the 20MM it took a whole pickup load of ammo and we were told it would last about 17 seconds. I was originally trained to work on reciprocating engine aircraft but cross trained to jets. When I went to Vietnam I was on C-123's until they quit spraying defoliant (agent Orange) I spent the rest of the time as a crew chief on C47s. When I transferred back to the US I went back to Jets.
 
^^^
One of those planes is on display here in Spokane @ Fairchild AFB. It has a big red star stenciled below the cockpit.

bob
 
The "chin" turret added to B-17's discouraged the Germans from making the head on attacks. I believe it helped a lot. I knew a B-17 pilot who said it helped a lot.
 

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