NYC Gun Show Investigation

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We, NYer's, have enough issues,the whole world knows it, but this was not about gun shows in NY.
 
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Ladder 13. Your mayor is certainly one large issue you have in your fair city. He is about as anti gun as you can get and he doesnt worry about spending his own money to further that cause. Heaven help us if he ever has presidential aspirations.
 
Mayor Bloomberg is not my mayor, I don't live in NYC. NYC actually occupies a small land mass in the State of NY. Don't really understand how everyone gets confused.
 
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New York City takes up 305 square miles in a state of 54,555 square miles, but everyone thinks when you mention New York, that we all live in NYC. Us upstaters (especially those of us here in the Adirondacks) really wish they would wall off NYC just like in Escape From New York.
 
I Love NY & NYC! The City is a Great place to have a short visit. But the rest of the state, particularly traveling the North Way reminds me so much of home in eastern Tennessee-- it is just beautiful. And I've found the people to be down to earth and gracious. The City just seems so out of place-- perhaps if it were annexed to New Jersey . . . they would know what to do with it; and that "wall" could be built . . .
 
..............."really wish they would wall off NYC just like in Escape From New York."

I feel your pain. I live in Northern Mi and we have the reputation of Detroit to contend with.
 
Sure wish youse guys would wall off NYC. As it is now those clowns are free and some of 'em move down to SE Florida and make our lives miserable. :mad:

Bob
 
I wonder where the expenditure for this "study" is hidden in NYC's budget. Bloomy's political aspirations know no boundaries. I can see this worm as the "federal gun retrieval" czar someday. Another little man with a big ego.
 
i lived in nyc for 10 years

nice place to visit

nicer place to leave

still live in the state, so still have to deal with the
phobias that most have about guns
 
I spent some of the most memorable years of my life in New York (Brooklyn and Staten Island). Memorable because I had access to farm land in upstate New York in Columbia county. I took my first deer in Livingston and spent almost every weekend in the apple orchards stalking groundhogs.

That said, I am really glad I was able to leave the "big city" politics behind.

Frank
 
I find it interesting that NYC commissions a study on gun shows located everywhere but NYC, because gun ownership is already illegal in NYC.

Anyhow, this thread is borderline 2A and borderline politics. For that reason I'm moving it to the 2A forum. Let's leave the politics out and conduct the thread from the standpoint of the 2A and compliance with existing gun laws.

I'd encourage EVERYONE to click on the link to the report and read the report in its entirety. There's a lot of sobering info in that report, and enough to say that if gun shows are banned, "we done it to ourselfs."

Noah
 
I've read the report and I am not amused. While it certainly paints a disturbing picture, it is also written with a clear intention to overstate the problem. How so?

In the nutshell this investigation found that:

1. 19 of 30 private sellers who were subjected to the "integrity test" closed the sale knowing that buyer won't pass a b/ground check. That's 63%.

2. 16 of 17 FFL holders subjected to the test closed apparent straw purchases (94%).

Obvious implication is that a vast majority of the gun show vendors are dishonest and we need more laws to deal with them.

Well, it would have been true if the sellers were selected at random. They weren't. Section "Sellers Approached in the Investigation" (p.14) describes in detail how PI's chose those sellers who were most likely to fail the tests and then approached only those. At each show they spent 1 day screening for the suspects and 1 day testing them. Obviously, a "study design" like that resulted in a vastly inflated number of illegal sales. In fact if PI's did really good job filtering their suspects, the investigation would have proved that all gun show vendors are dishonest. It's just like spotting drug dealers on the street, shaking them down to prove that they are in fact selling drugs and then reporting that every person on the street is a drug dealer.

It's hard to say based on this intentionally biased report how big the problem really is. However the report states (p. 13) that there were 453 vendors (312 private and 141 FFL's) at these shows of which 35 were proven to violate existing laws. Nothing to be happy about but that's 7.7% not 74%.

So, why again do we need more laws? With 40 PI's and $1.8M of NYC taxpayers money, Mayor Bloomberg showed how to deal with the problem using existing laws. Perhaps poor underfunded ATF ($1,028B 2009 budget and 4,900 employees) doesn't have enough resources? Or, maybe, ATF just lacks the will and the leadership to use existing resources to enforce existing laws.

Mike
 
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I read the report, a few times, in fact. I certainly hope BATFE reads it too and prosecutes all parties invloved in the "investigation" for conducting intentional straw purchases in multiple states and conspiracy. Shouldn't be too hard since all the evidence needed is contained in the report.

That said, the laws are already on the books, enforce them.
 
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