NYPD DSC Victory #138199

[RM Vivas]

It's generally held that the total production of Victory revolvers made by Smith & Wesson (S&W) for the Second World War was 811,119. There is a small bit of wiggle room in that figure but for my purposes, I'll say 'close enough'.

During WW2 the New York City Police Department (NYPD) took in approximately 850 Victory revolvers spread across three shipments under the auspices of the Defense Supplies Corp. (DSC). Charlie Pate in his excellent book, U.S. HANDGUNS OF WORLD WAR II - THE SECONDARY PISTOLS AND REVOLVERS, gives the background and history of the DSC and if one is unfamiliar with the DSC, that is as good a place as any to learn about it.

The first DSC shipment to NYPD was for 250 guns; this post is about one of them.

On the hunt for NYPD revolvers, I came across a Victory that had a 4-digit number unevenly handstamped upon the backstrap. I recognized that this is a -possible- indicator of an NYPD revolver, so I took a chance and purchased it.

Naturally, the first step was to get a factory letter and it did not disappoint!

The gun itself was in fairly decent shape. Some finish wear but nothing outrageous:

The gun is serial number V138199 and is devoid of any US Property markings.

The only suggestion of Uncle Sam (other than the polish and finish) is a vestigial Ordnance Logo stamped on the butt:

Normally, on a military Victory we would find some sort of U.S. Property marking, typically on the top strap, yet here we can see that the area is smooth and unstamped, nor any indications of a stamp being removed:

The barrel and cylinder both bear matching numbers:

On the backstrap, faintly stamped, was the number "2407" which was the shield number of the officer who owned the gun:

Running the serial number through my database, I found an entry for the gun in the NYPD Equipment Bureau Book 42-46 page 29 that recorded the gun as being sold on 24NOV42 to Probationary Patrolman Wm. HAYES shield number 2407 and assigned to the Police Academy:

NYPD Equipment Bureau Book 42-46 page 29


William C. Hayes was born 24MAR15 and was, according to his draft card in 1940, a New York State Policeman with the rank of Trooper, assigned to the Hawthorne Barracks in Mt. Pleasant, NY.

At some point he must have wanted to seek greener pastures, as he took the Patrolmans exam, passed with a score of 84.500 and placed 521st on the Eligibles list:

From The City Record 10SEP42


Having been placed on the Eligibles list, he was appointed a Patrolman on Probation on 21NOV42 at an annual salary of $1,320 (this went up to about $2,000-$2,250 after a year on 'da Job):

From The City Record 10DEC42 p. 4952


He seems to have done well because not only did he graduate on 17FEB43, he was also awarded an engraved revolver as the Police Commissioners Trophy, an award for having the third highest class average:

Spring 3100 March 1943

Unfortunately, I could find very little on his career with NYPD; Hayes is a fairly common name and there was just to many search query returns to wade through.

Patrolman Hayes died in Sarasota, FL in 2002.


Best,
RM Vivas

 

[kbm6893]

Leaving the state police to become NYPD? Things sure have reversed!

Born in 1924 and not serving in WW2 is unusual, isn't it? Wasn't there some rule about not drafting the only son in a family? Maybe he was an only child.

 

[RM Vivas]

He was born 1915. I believe he would have been 27-28 when he came on 'da Job. In the early part of the war LaGuardia championed for draft exemptions for firemen and police.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[Old_Cop]

Excellent sleuthing.

 

[Baxter6551]

I also thought it unusual to leave the State Police for NYPD but there must have been some motivation. Fascinating records. That "Spring 3100" info was very interesting. Average recruit age 26 among other statistics. I know nothing about the WWII draft but they were drafting policemen? Were they not "essential workers" ?
As always, Mr. Visas posts are a pleasure to read.

 

[serger]

Thank you Mr. Vivas.

Your posts are one of the reasons I'm a member here and I
very much appreciate what you do.

Thanks

 

[RM Vivas]

I also thought it unusual to leave the State Police for NYPD but there must have been some motivation. Fascinating records. That "Spring 3100" info was very interesting. Average recruit age 26 among other statistics. I know nothing about the WWII draft but they were drafting policemen? Were they not "essential workers" ?
As always, Mr. Visas posts are a pleasure to read.

LaGuardia actually worked quite hard to exempt Patrolmen and Firemen from the draft, stating they were essential workers.

Eventually a decision was made to draft Patrolmen but not Firemen because it was felt that experienced Firemen would be needed to deal with the 'new' type of warfare; firebombing cities.

Police who were drafted were, by law, entitled to the difference between their military pay and their NYPD pay. This put a bit of a financial strain on the City and was a large part of the reason so few hires were made on the eve of the war and almost none during the war.

An exemption was made for the hiring of "Temporary Patrolmen; Military Replacements". These were men hired as Patrolman, trained and equipped as such and sent out on patrol. They were temporary hires to replace drafted men and once that man came back, the temporary one was let go. The TP;MR could not be promoted past the lowest rank (Patrolman) and could not make more in salary than that rank. He accrued no pension benefits and received none of the other benefits that a regular Patrolman might have gotten under contract/civil service.

The TP;MR acquitted themselves pretty well. A few bad apples but also some rather heroic fellows accomplishing noteworthy deeds.

At the end of the war, they were all let go and there was a movement to make them full time Patrolmen with all the rights and benefits. After all, they had been through the same training as regular Patrolmen and had experience.

Unfortunately, the representative that the Association of Former Temporary Patrolmen hired to plead their case to City Hall stole about twelve grand from tem and was charged with attempting to bribe city officials (I guess it wasn't enough?).

After that, the movement to re-instate them went nowhere. Too bad, I think they got screwed over.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[kwill1911]

Normally, on a military Victory we would find some sort of U.S. Property marking, typically on the top strap, yet here we can see that the area is smooth and unstamped, nor any indications of a stamp being removed

Great stuff, Robert, as always. Since the DSC guns were not military they are not marked U.S. PROPERTY. They were bought by the law enforcement organization or company that used them for guard guns.

 

[RM Vivas]

Great stuff, Robert, as always. Since the DSC guns were not military they are not marked U.S. PROPERTY. They were bought by the law enforcement organization or company that used them for guard guns.

Thats exactly the point I wanted to make!

They'll have an Ordnance logo but no inspector marks, no US PROPERTY, etc.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[T44spl]

Mr Hayes leaving the NYSP to go to NYPD makes sense in th fact that he lived in NYC, so to be closer to home and maybe he was one of those guys that thrived on action. NYC in the 1940's was I'm sure much more "busy" at the time for those craving action, particularly if he missed being drafted for WWII. So actually I believe it does fall in place, things do make sense.
Mr Vivas your passion & diligience for all things NYPD are incomparable,
the forum members owe you a tremendous debt of gratitude for all your outstanding research & work, I love the archival photos of old NYC in your other post. Although those photos were ahead of my time as I'm only 65 years, I grew up in NYC & roamed everywhere fearlessly even in the "bad old days". Keep up the good work your research is much appreciated.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Great info. Thanks a bunch.

 

[RM Vivas]

Mr Hayes leaving the NYSP to go to NYPD makes sense in th fact that he lived in NYC, so to be closer to home and maybe he was one of those guys that thrived on action. NYC in the 1940's was I'm sure much more "busy" at the time for those craving action, particularly if he missed being drafted for WWII. So actually I believe it does fall in place, things do make sense.
Mr Vivas your passion & diligience for all things NYPD are incomparable,
the forum members owe you a tremendous debt of gratitude for all your outstanding research & work, I love the archival photos of old NYC in your other post. Although those photos were ahead of my time as I'm only 65 years, I grew up in NYC & roamed everywhere fearlessly even in the "bad old days". Keep up the good work your research is much appreciated.

Where in NYC did you grow up? What address?

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[RM Vivas]

A friend of mine has a hook with NYSP and they sent me this:

I could not find any reference to William C. Hayes within my State Police materials; however, I found numerous references to him researching old newspapers and genealogical databases. Here is a brief sketch:
William Charles Hayes was born on March 24, 1915, at 656 East 176th St. Bronx, NY, the only child of Daniel F. and Helen R. Kenney Hayes. Daniel Hayes was a road inspector for the Borough or the Bronx.
It appears that William joined the New York State Police at SP Hawthorne, Troop K on July 1, 1939. His salary would have been $900 annually and he would have been required to live at the barracks. Troopers received 30 days of annual leave, which had to be taken at once, during the winter months. There were no days off during the summer months.
Hawthorne was Troop K headquarters and Troopers were continuously transferred to various substations every couple of months. The thinking of the State Police management during this time was that frequent transfers did not allow Troopers to get too comfortable or friendly with the local residents and thus their judgement and administration of the law would be more balanced and fairer.
His first assignment after his enlistment was at Monroe in Orange County, which was then part of Troop K and is now located within the jurisdiction of Troop F. He would have been paired with a senior Trooper for a few months. In Sept. 1939, he was sent back to Hawthorne where he most likely was kept busy engaged in janitorial duties and groundskeeping. During this time, new Troopers were observed for approximately 6 months before they were sent to the training school. If they weren't meeting the standards, rather than waste time and resources, they were terminated.
On January 8, 1940, he was one of 10 Troop K Troopers assigned to the four-week State Police Basic Training School in Troy, NY. He graduated 2nd in his class academically, on February 1, 1940, with an average of 97.38. For this he was presented a copy of "Underhill's Criminal Evidence."
Upon graduation, he was transferred to Bay Shore, Long Island which was then part of Troop K (now Troop L). After a couple of months, he was transferred to another Long Island location - Brightwaters.
In June 1940, he was transferred to Millbrook where it appears he was very active enforcing the vehicle and traffic law and investigating traffic related accidents. The last reference that I found of him as a Trooper was in January 1941. He was still stationed in Millbrook at that time. His salary would have been static at $900. The constant transfers and the barracks life, coupled with 24-hour tours of duty caused many to leave the Troopers for greener pastures.
I hope this helps with your project.

 

[T44spl]

Mr. Vivas, I was born in Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn then in 1968 it was rezoned and split into what became Crown Heights & Bed Stuy with Eastern Parkway as the dividing point. In my teens & later years I spent a lot of time in the Lower East side, Chinatown & Little Italy Areas. So I remember the old Police Headquarters, the "Iron Alley" of Center Market Street where John Jovino and friendly rival Sile. When the old Police Headquarter building was sold and became multi million dollar plus condos, it was a georgeous piece of architechure and the new Police Headquarters was under construction just past Chatham Square.
It's Hard to believe that NYC & NYS was home to many gun dealers and manufacturers at one time.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

His salary would have been static at $900.

The constant transfers and

the barracks life,

coupled with 24-hour tours of duty caused many to leave the Troopers for greener pastures.

Four great reasons for leaving.

Law Enforcement has not changed in 100 years.

 

[RM Vivas]

Mr. Vivas, I was born in Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn then in 1968 it was rezoned and split into what became Crown Heights & Bed Stuy with Eastern Parkway as the dividing point. In my teens & later years I spent a lot of time in the Lower East side, Chinatown & Little Italy Areas. So I remember the old Police Headquarters, the "Iron Alley" of Center Market Street where John Jovino and friendly rival Sile. When the old Police Headquarter building was sold and became multi million dollar plus condos, it was a georgeous piece of architechure and the new Police Headquarters was under construction just past Chatham Square.
It's Hard to believe that NYC & NYS was home to many gun dealers and manufacturers at one time.

One of the items on my lists of future projects is a directory of gunmakers and dealers of NYC from 1870 to 1950 or so.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[Enzo Rules]

Great piece of history. Thank you.