RM Vivas
US Veteran
There is a fair bit of information, some accurate and some less so, on the contract produced Smith & Wesson Model 64 revolver that was made for the New York City Police Department from approximately 1987 through 1993.
Any discussion of NYPD handguns has to start with a statement describing the Departments handgun policy. Typically, handguns are the property of the individual officers and are not property of the Department. For this reason, with very rare exception, you won’t find handguns with PROPERTY OF NYPD markings. Since the guns are the personal property of the individual officer, they may be disposed of lawfully as he sees fit. The result is a large number of guns on the second-hand market with NYPD provenance; the trick is recognizing them!
The Departments on-duty Smith & Wesson revolver of choice had almost always been the Military & Police/Model 10. These guns were approved in 1926 when the Department switched from .38 S&W to .38 Special and were purchased through 1997. I can account for about 35,000 of these guns by individual surviving records (this includes Victory revolvers) but I am convinced the actual number purchased is around 100,000 and possibly as high as 115-120,000.
The Trinity: Steel, DAO & The Angry 3 Inches
In the middle 1990’s a movement was afoot to make significant changes to the Departments revolver policy. New revolvers would henceforth be:
• Stainless steel with a non-reflective finish
• Double-Action Only (DAO)
• Available in 3-inch
The move to stainless steel was based upon the finish wear and rust that would sometimes negatively impact a revolver if the owner was not particularly attentive to its care (a common problem). Although stainless steel guns had been around for quite some time, the Department had always eschewed them. There was a line of thinking that “…only bad guys have shiny guns…’ and this belief was cited as the cause of a number of friendly fire incidents that resulted in ‘shiny’ guns (nickel plated) being banned in the late 1960’s. The ‘shiny gun’ line of thinking was so ingrained that, supposedly, some sample stainless steel guns from Sturm, Ruger and possibly S&W were manufactured with a blued finish applied to the stainless steel.
The move to DAO was meant to reduce the risk of accidental discharges. By removing the mechanical ability to fire a revolver in Single Action (SA), it was felt that accidental discharges under stress could be reduced. Part of the impetus for this may have been a shooting on a subway platform where a suspect was accidentally shot by an officer whose revolver was cocked.
Another idea was to authorize 3-inch barreled guns for uniform on-duty use. Prior to this, on-duty revolvers had to be 4-inch although women were authorized to carry the 3-inch Model 36-1, first as Policewomen and, after 1973, as Police Officers. Part of the reasoning behind this authorization of the 3-inch gun was what came to be called the Uni-gun Theory. The idea was that if an officer had a single gun that he could carry for both on- and off-duty use, the likelihood of the gun being lost or stolen or being left unattended and grabbed up by an unauthorized person would be greatly reduced, as the gun would pretty much be with the officer all the time during waking hours.
Since he Model 10 already had a well-documented and successful career with the NYPD, it made sense to simply adopt the stainless-steel version, the Model 64, but with certain modifications:
• Had to be DAO
• Had to have the serial number in 3 places (frame butt, frame cylinder yoke cut-out, on frame below cylinder window)
• Had to have a ‘frosted’ or non-reflective finish
As we will see, all three of these requirements were not fully met until the end of production.
Originally, there were to be four variations of the Model 64 NY-1: 4-inch Square Butt, 4-inch Round Butt, 3-inch Square Butt and 3-inch Round Butt. When the Model 60 NY-1 revolvers were pulled from service, a 2-inch Round Butt version was offered, bringing the total main variations up to five revolvers. Within these five variations of revolvers, however, a number of sub-variations.
In 1994 I had an article published in the Smith & Wesson Collectors Association Journal (V28 N2 Fall 1994) in which I published my findings. Based upon my examination of shipping invoices held by the NYPD Equipment Bureau, I was able to account for 5,575 revolvers. The statistical breakdown was as follows:
• 4-inch Square Butt – 2265
• 4-inch Round Butt – 932
• 3-inch Square Butt – 96
• 3-inch Round Butt – 516
• 2-inch Round Butt – 453
• Configuration unknown – 1313
It is, I think, crucially important to be mindful that almost 20% of the total production can not be identified as to configuration. Therefore, the best we can say is that based upon available records the rarest configuration is 3-inch RB, keeping in mind that an indeterminate amount may be amongst the ones for whom there is no record of configuration.
Having said that, my personal experience and observation has been that the 3-inch guns are not commonly encountered, and I have not ever encountered a 3-inch Square Butt gun on the used gun market.
Model 64 NY-1 4” RB #AWT2968
#AWT2968 is one of the earliest M64 NY-1 revolvers, having shipped as part of a 62-gun shipment on September 23, 1987, and as such differs slightly from the ones that came afterward. If one were to compare AWT2968 to one of the last production guns, BNU95780, one could see quite the progression of changes.
#AWT2968 has finish that is typical for most stainless-steel guns; it does not appear to have had any special treatment to reduce the ‘shine’.
The gun sports standard S&W wood stocks checkered and with the S&W medallion. These were the standard stocks although officers could install rubber grips if they were so inclined.
The serial number is stamped on the butt in the usual fashion but does not appear on the frame below the cylinder window, not does it appear stamped in the cylinder frame yoke cut-out. Interestingly, this particular gun, while bearing the NY-1 stamping and factory lettering as a shipment to the NYPD in 1987, is stamped as a Model 64 with no -dash number. Keep in mind the M64-1 marking came out in 1972; it is more likely this is a simple mis-stamp than an M64 frame that sat around for 15 years.
Also worth noting Is that the firing pin on the hammer is not the later spring-loaded model.
Lastly, the letter identifies this gun as part of a 62-gun shipment in 1987; no 62 gun shipments of any configuration of M64 NY-1 revolvers were observed in the records I searched at NYPD. It is possible that this is an error in the letter but much more likely is the possibility that not all the records survived at NYPD and thus we can only make educated estimates as to how many guns and in what configurations were shipped.
Model 64-5 NY-1 3” SB #AYP3083
#AYP3083 is one of the lesser seen M64-3 NY-1 3-inch Round Butt guns.
This example hasn’t been lettered as to date of sale yet but is representative of the progression towards fulfilling all the NYPD requirements. This gun likely shipped after M64-AWP3083 and is a bit closer to the NYPD’s initial requirements.
Most noticeably, the gun still has a ‘shiny’ quality but not quite as brilliant as AWP3083. It’s a subtle difference and one easily missed, particularly if the gun is being view without another later or earlier gun for comparison.
One of the most obvious differences between this mid-production gun and the early production AWP3083 is that this gun has the serial number stamped in a second location: the left side of the frame under the cylinder window. It’s worth noting that the style of stamping and its mechanical methos are identical to the serial number stamping.
Although the ideal M64 NY-1 was to have the serial number in THREE locations, this one only has it in two. The frame in the cylinder yoke cut-out lacks the third serial number. Like its earlier brethren however, it is clearly labeled as to the NY-1 model designation.
The authorized on-duty uniform holster for the Model 64’s was the classic NYPD Jay-Pee ‘bucket’ holster. Interestingly, in all my travels, I have never encountered one of these holsters that was fitted for a 3” gun.
Model 64-5 NY-1 4” SB #BNU9570
#ABNU9570 is the most common configuration for the Model 64 NY-1 revolver; this particular one, also not yet lettered as to ship date, is unmistakably one of the final iterations of the M64 NY-1 and, ultimately, the highest and final evolution of the M&P in NYPD service.
In this gun we see the product of all the NYPD requirements, as well as some manufacturing variation.
Most noticeable is the finish; the gun sports a low glare ‘frosted’ matte silver appearance. This is the finish the NYPD wanted from the start and that S&W finally achieved.
Another interesting feature is the serial number. The number stamped on the butt as well as the third serial number stamped on the frame at the cylinder yoke cut-out use a ‘dot matrix’ type stamping. Contrast this to the serial number stampings on AWT2968 and AWP3083 as well as BBY8719 (which we will get to in a moment).
The second serial number is also a bit different. Whereas on AWP3083 and BBY8719 the second serial number placement is stamped into the gun in a manner similar to the serial number stampings, on this gun the serial number has a ‘lasered’-like quality
This example hasn’t been lettered as to date of sale yet but is representative of the progression towards fulfilling all the NYPD requirements. This gun likely shipped after M64-AWP3083 and is a bit closer to the NYPD’s initial requirements.
This gun, as well as BBY8719, are fitted with the spring-loaded firing pins. I asked the gunsmiths at the range about this and was told there was a concern that if the firing pin were tilted at an upward angle, it would drag on the frame, creating drag and lightening the hammer strike. I can’t say if that’s true or not but that’s the story I was given.
Model 64-4 NY-1 2” RB #BBY8719
#BBY8719 is one of the NY-1 guns that I don’t really think was ever meant to be. This particular one was part of a 200 gun shipment on February 17, 1989; likely off of invoice #07003501.
The NY-1 ‘family” of guns included a Model 60 that was modified to fire DAO as an option for off-duty and plainclothes. For various reasons that this article won’t address right now, the Model 60 NY-1 revolvers were withdrawn from service.
Their withdrawl from service left a large number of people high and dry. The officers who had purchased the M60 NY-1 had to now pay for a new gun while the gun they had already purchased and paid for was, administratively, useless.
The Patrolmans Benevolent Association stepped in and had their lawyers step in and threaten sue S&W on behalf of the men with the now useless revolvers. Under terms of an agreement, S&W would either refund the cost of the gun to the officer OR provide them with 2-inch RB M64 and a $35 coupon.
Known 2-inch guns number a bit under 600 and, given the incomplete records, may number a bit higher. They are not too common.
The sample shown here has a significantly more subdued finish than the very early gun, AWT2968. Also, the gun has the stamped 2nd serial number placement under the left frames cylinder window but lacks the third serial number on the cylinder yoke cut-out.
Observations
In terms of the NYPD, the Model 64 NY-1 revolvers were very significant. They represented the highest evolution of the M&P for the Department and are the last revolver authorized for on-duty uniform use.
The standard holster for all models was he classic Jay-Pee ‘bucket’ holster, however I have yet to encounter one in 3-inch.
A myriad of variations may be encountered based on whether or not the gun has the second or third serial placed, the manner of the serial number application (stamped, ‘dot matrix’ or ‘lasered’), the shininess of the finish and the presence of the spring-loaded firing pin. If you look VERY closely at the image of all four guns, you will see that the 3-inch gun and the 4-inch SB both have a small section of the top of the firing pin showing above the hammer; very small, but it is there.
The value of the M64 NY-1 is difficult to say. They cost the officers between $184.34 (1987) and $238.99 (1993). I have seen some listed on auction sites for as much as $5,000, which is absolutely ludicrous! Unless it’s one of the unicorn 3-inch Square Butt models, they really shouldn’t go above $800 or so (my -opinion-) unless it can be traced to a famous person or incident.
The NYPD records I have cover 1921 to roughly 1985, so I can not tell you which individual officer got which gun. At a later date I might be able to get my hands on those records, but my days of being able to scoop up protected records are way over and I wouldn’t hold my breathe on that one!
I hope you folks found this interesting!
Support the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation; they help make what I do possible!
Best,
RM Vivas
Any discussion of NYPD handguns has to start with a statement describing the Departments handgun policy. Typically, handguns are the property of the individual officers and are not property of the Department. For this reason, with very rare exception, you won’t find handguns with PROPERTY OF NYPD markings. Since the guns are the personal property of the individual officer, they may be disposed of lawfully as he sees fit. The result is a large number of guns on the second-hand market with NYPD provenance; the trick is recognizing them!
The Departments on-duty Smith & Wesson revolver of choice had almost always been the Military & Police/Model 10. These guns were approved in 1926 when the Department switched from .38 S&W to .38 Special and were purchased through 1997. I can account for about 35,000 of these guns by individual surviving records (this includes Victory revolvers) but I am convinced the actual number purchased is around 100,000 and possibly as high as 115-120,000.
The Trinity: Steel, DAO & The Angry 3 Inches
In the middle 1990’s a movement was afoot to make significant changes to the Departments revolver policy. New revolvers would henceforth be:
• Stainless steel with a non-reflective finish
• Double-Action Only (DAO)
• Available in 3-inch
The move to stainless steel was based upon the finish wear and rust that would sometimes negatively impact a revolver if the owner was not particularly attentive to its care (a common problem). Although stainless steel guns had been around for quite some time, the Department had always eschewed them. There was a line of thinking that “…only bad guys have shiny guns…’ and this belief was cited as the cause of a number of friendly fire incidents that resulted in ‘shiny’ guns (nickel plated) being banned in the late 1960’s. The ‘shiny gun’ line of thinking was so ingrained that, supposedly, some sample stainless steel guns from Sturm, Ruger and possibly S&W were manufactured with a blued finish applied to the stainless steel.
The move to DAO was meant to reduce the risk of accidental discharges. By removing the mechanical ability to fire a revolver in Single Action (SA), it was felt that accidental discharges under stress could be reduced. Part of the impetus for this may have been a shooting on a subway platform where a suspect was accidentally shot by an officer whose revolver was cocked.
Another idea was to authorize 3-inch barreled guns for uniform on-duty use. Prior to this, on-duty revolvers had to be 4-inch although women were authorized to carry the 3-inch Model 36-1, first as Policewomen and, after 1973, as Police Officers. Part of the reasoning behind this authorization of the 3-inch gun was what came to be called the Uni-gun Theory. The idea was that if an officer had a single gun that he could carry for both on- and off-duty use, the likelihood of the gun being lost or stolen or being left unattended and grabbed up by an unauthorized person would be greatly reduced, as the gun would pretty much be with the officer all the time during waking hours.
Since he Model 10 already had a well-documented and successful career with the NYPD, it made sense to simply adopt the stainless-steel version, the Model 64, but with certain modifications:
• Had to be DAO
• Had to have the serial number in 3 places (frame butt, frame cylinder yoke cut-out, on frame below cylinder window)
• Had to have a ‘frosted’ or non-reflective finish
As we will see, all three of these requirements were not fully met until the end of production.
Originally, there were to be four variations of the Model 64 NY-1: 4-inch Square Butt, 4-inch Round Butt, 3-inch Square Butt and 3-inch Round Butt. When the Model 60 NY-1 revolvers were pulled from service, a 2-inch Round Butt version was offered, bringing the total main variations up to five revolvers. Within these five variations of revolvers, however, a number of sub-variations.
In 1994 I had an article published in the Smith & Wesson Collectors Association Journal (V28 N2 Fall 1994) in which I published my findings. Based upon my examination of shipping invoices held by the NYPD Equipment Bureau, I was able to account for 5,575 revolvers. The statistical breakdown was as follows:
• 4-inch Square Butt – 2265
• 4-inch Round Butt – 932
• 3-inch Square Butt – 96
• 3-inch Round Butt – 516
• 2-inch Round Butt – 453
• Configuration unknown – 1313
It is, I think, crucially important to be mindful that almost 20% of the total production can not be identified as to configuration. Therefore, the best we can say is that based upon available records the rarest configuration is 3-inch RB, keeping in mind that an indeterminate amount may be amongst the ones for whom there is no record of configuration.
Having said that, my personal experience and observation has been that the 3-inch guns are not commonly encountered, and I have not ever encountered a 3-inch Square Butt gun on the used gun market.
Model 64 NY-1 4” RB #AWT2968
#AWT2968 is one of the earliest M64 NY-1 revolvers, having shipped as part of a 62-gun shipment on September 23, 1987, and as such differs slightly from the ones that came afterward. If one were to compare AWT2968 to one of the last production guns, BNU95780, one could see quite the progression of changes.
#AWT2968 has finish that is typical for most stainless-steel guns; it does not appear to have had any special treatment to reduce the ‘shine’.
The gun sports standard S&W wood stocks checkered and with the S&W medallion. These were the standard stocks although officers could install rubber grips if they were so inclined.
The serial number is stamped on the butt in the usual fashion but does not appear on the frame below the cylinder window, not does it appear stamped in the cylinder frame yoke cut-out. Interestingly, this particular gun, while bearing the NY-1 stamping and factory lettering as a shipment to the NYPD in 1987, is stamped as a Model 64 with no -dash number. Keep in mind the M64-1 marking came out in 1972; it is more likely this is a simple mis-stamp than an M64 frame that sat around for 15 years.
Also worth noting Is that the firing pin on the hammer is not the later spring-loaded model.
Lastly, the letter identifies this gun as part of a 62-gun shipment in 1987; no 62 gun shipments of any configuration of M64 NY-1 revolvers were observed in the records I searched at NYPD. It is possible that this is an error in the letter but much more likely is the possibility that not all the records survived at NYPD and thus we can only make educated estimates as to how many guns and in what configurations were shipped.
Model 64-5 NY-1 3” SB #AYP3083
#AYP3083 is one of the lesser seen M64-3 NY-1 3-inch Round Butt guns.
This example hasn’t been lettered as to date of sale yet but is representative of the progression towards fulfilling all the NYPD requirements. This gun likely shipped after M64-AWP3083 and is a bit closer to the NYPD’s initial requirements.
Most noticeably, the gun still has a ‘shiny’ quality but not quite as brilliant as AWP3083. It’s a subtle difference and one easily missed, particularly if the gun is being view without another later or earlier gun for comparison.
One of the most obvious differences between this mid-production gun and the early production AWP3083 is that this gun has the serial number stamped in a second location: the left side of the frame under the cylinder window. It’s worth noting that the style of stamping and its mechanical methos are identical to the serial number stamping.
Although the ideal M64 NY-1 was to have the serial number in THREE locations, this one only has it in two. The frame in the cylinder yoke cut-out lacks the third serial number. Like its earlier brethren however, it is clearly labeled as to the NY-1 model designation.
The authorized on-duty uniform holster for the Model 64’s was the classic NYPD Jay-Pee ‘bucket’ holster. Interestingly, in all my travels, I have never encountered one of these holsters that was fitted for a 3” gun.
Model 64-5 NY-1 4” SB #BNU9570
#ABNU9570 is the most common configuration for the Model 64 NY-1 revolver; this particular one, also not yet lettered as to ship date, is unmistakably one of the final iterations of the M64 NY-1 and, ultimately, the highest and final evolution of the M&P in NYPD service.
In this gun we see the product of all the NYPD requirements, as well as some manufacturing variation.
Most noticeable is the finish; the gun sports a low glare ‘frosted’ matte silver appearance. This is the finish the NYPD wanted from the start and that S&W finally achieved.
Another interesting feature is the serial number. The number stamped on the butt as well as the third serial number stamped on the frame at the cylinder yoke cut-out use a ‘dot matrix’ type stamping. Contrast this to the serial number stampings on AWT2968 and AWP3083 as well as BBY8719 (which we will get to in a moment).
The second serial number is also a bit different. Whereas on AWP3083 and BBY8719 the second serial number placement is stamped into the gun in a manner similar to the serial number stampings, on this gun the serial number has a ‘lasered’-like quality
This example hasn’t been lettered as to date of sale yet but is representative of the progression towards fulfilling all the NYPD requirements. This gun likely shipped after M64-AWP3083 and is a bit closer to the NYPD’s initial requirements.
This gun, as well as BBY8719, are fitted with the spring-loaded firing pins. I asked the gunsmiths at the range about this and was told there was a concern that if the firing pin were tilted at an upward angle, it would drag on the frame, creating drag and lightening the hammer strike. I can’t say if that’s true or not but that’s the story I was given.
Model 64-4 NY-1 2” RB #BBY8719
#BBY8719 is one of the NY-1 guns that I don’t really think was ever meant to be. This particular one was part of a 200 gun shipment on February 17, 1989; likely off of invoice #07003501.
The NY-1 ‘family” of guns included a Model 60 that was modified to fire DAO as an option for off-duty and plainclothes. For various reasons that this article won’t address right now, the Model 60 NY-1 revolvers were withdrawn from service.
Their withdrawl from service left a large number of people high and dry. The officers who had purchased the M60 NY-1 had to now pay for a new gun while the gun they had already purchased and paid for was, administratively, useless.
The Patrolmans Benevolent Association stepped in and had their lawyers step in and threaten sue S&W on behalf of the men with the now useless revolvers. Under terms of an agreement, S&W would either refund the cost of the gun to the officer OR provide them with 2-inch RB M64 and a $35 coupon.
Known 2-inch guns number a bit under 600 and, given the incomplete records, may number a bit higher. They are not too common.
The sample shown here has a significantly more subdued finish than the very early gun, AWT2968. Also, the gun has the stamped 2nd serial number placement under the left frames cylinder window but lacks the third serial number on the cylinder yoke cut-out.
Observations
In terms of the NYPD, the Model 64 NY-1 revolvers were very significant. They represented the highest evolution of the M&P for the Department and are the last revolver authorized for on-duty uniform use.
The standard holster for all models was he classic Jay-Pee ‘bucket’ holster, however I have yet to encounter one in 3-inch.
A myriad of variations may be encountered based on whether or not the gun has the second or third serial placed, the manner of the serial number application (stamped, ‘dot matrix’ or ‘lasered’), the shininess of the finish and the presence of the spring-loaded firing pin. If you look VERY closely at the image of all four guns, you will see that the 3-inch gun and the 4-inch SB both have a small section of the top of the firing pin showing above the hammer; very small, but it is there.
The value of the M64 NY-1 is difficult to say. They cost the officers between $184.34 (1987) and $238.99 (1993). I have seen some listed on auction sites for as much as $5,000, which is absolutely ludicrous! Unless it’s one of the unicorn 3-inch Square Butt models, they really shouldn’t go above $800 or so (my -opinion-) unless it can be traced to a famous person or incident.
The NYPD records I have cover 1921 to roughly 1985, so I can not tell you which individual officer got which gun. At a later date I might be able to get my hands on those records, but my days of being able to scoop up protected records are way over and I wouldn’t hold my breathe on that one!
I hope you folks found this interesting!
Support the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation; they help make what I do possible!
Best,
RM Vivas
.
