Odd problem with Nosler .45ACP bullets. Update

[Kelly Green]

The gun in question is a Remington R1 1911 with a little over 2,000 rounds through it. The problem has only happened with my handload Nosler FMJ RN flat points and only on the last round. The last round in the magazine will not feed into battery or it will stovepipe. It will happen with a full magazine or I can load two, three or four rounds into the magazine and it will occur only on the last round. If I put just one round in the magazine and rack the slide, that round will chamber. Occasionally, the last round will be ejected, unfired, with the previous spent cartridge. This happens with both magazines.

The bullets are .451 x .625 and seated to an OAL of 1.214. If I try to seat this particular Nosler bullet a bit longer the round will not headspace correctly. There is no problem with head spacing, feeding or ejection with ordinary FMJRN bullets at 1.262 OAL.

I shot several magazines of this same Nosler round through my 1945 Remington Rand 1911 and my S&W 4556TSW without a hiccup. If anyone has an idea or suggestion, it would be appreciated.

 

[arjay]

I would guess it's the magazine .Have you tried other brands?.My hunch is the spring isn't quite strong enough.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The bullets are .451 x .625 and seated to an OAL of 1.214. If I try to seat this particular Nosler bullet a bit longer the round will not headspace correctly. There is no problem with head spacing, feeding or ejection with ordinary FMJRN bullets at 1.262 OAL.

Since the .45 Auto headspaces on the case I see no reason why seating the bullet a little longer will cause headspace problems. I'm a little confused...

 

[Old 44 Guy]

Change magazines & see.

 

[Kelly Green]

Since the .45 Auto headspaces on the case I see no reason why seating the bullet a little longer will cause headspace problems. I'm a little confused...

ArchAngelCD I’m confused too. I know, it sounds unusual, but if I seat this particular bullet past 1.214 OAL it will not headspace on the case. As the OAL increases more of the brass rim protrudes from the breech. The crimp is set at .469. I will take photos in the morning with the OAL set greater than 1.214 and post them. When the OAL reaches 1.262 there is considerable brass protruding from the breech.

 

[Reddog]

I have an R-1, and had trouble with the seating depth, too. It wouldn't feed well until I seated my bullets at 1.175" OAL.
Dick

 

[dnater]

Sounds like a very tight chamber/short throat. Might see if it needs to be reamed out a bit.

 

[dla]

Your magazine spring is weak and/or the body is full of crud. Try another mag and/or clean what you've got.

 

[Dale53]

I'll address the issue of headspace. Some bullets have a full diameter section that at "normal" seating depth will interfere with the start of the rifling.

I use only my own cast bullets in my 1911's (over 100,000 at last count). I seat them to headspace on the bullet. When the barrel (removed from the gun) is held vertical and the bullet is dropped in the base of the case is flush with the barrel hood. If a particular bullet is just a couple of thousandth's too long, the alloy bullet will allow the slide to close.

However, when using jacketed bullets you MUST leave a little more space for slightly longer cartridges as the jacket is so stiff it will not allow the slide to close if there is ANY interference with the rifling lead (pronounced "Leed").

You might best just decide to use another bullet in your particular 1911.

That's why good self defense instructors tell you to fire a couple of hundred rounds of your chosen cartridge in YOUR gun before actually trying to use that ammo in a real self defense role.

FWIW
Dale53

 

[Fishslayer]

Magazine springs are usually the cause of last round jams.

As for OAL, here ya go.

cartridge plunk test + reloading - Google Search

 

[venomballistics]

ArchAngelCD I’m confused too. I know, it sounds unusual, but if I seat this particular bullet past 1.214 OAL it will not headspace on the case. As the OAL increases more of the brass rim protrudes from the breech. The crimp is set at .469. I will take photos in the morning with the OAL set greater than 1.214 and post them. When the OAL reaches 1.262 there is considerable brass protruding from the breech.

well ... seat a dummy round "long" then get a sharpie marker and make a good thick band of color around the bullet at the case mouth .. Ill bet you will find 6 marks in the ink band after you extract it.

 

[Kelly Green]

Update

Thank you for your advice and suggestions. I was going to take photos but I think a drawing will more accurately show what is happening. The throat length in this Remington barrel is a small 0.047” and the lands begin sharply at 90 degrees to the barrel. My S&W 4553-TSW has a throat of 0.075” and the lands taper up to full height off the end of the throat. S&W did it right. My Remington Rand also has a longer throat than the R1. I could seat off the lands but then I’m already there.

I checked my .452 cast LRN with a 1.271 OAL and find that I have brass hanging out the back of the Remington barrel. I’m just estimating but it looks like I would have to seat the .452 LRN very deep and headspaced on the bullet to get it to chamber correctly. I don’t like seating a bullet this deep because of pressure concerns.

The solution, I think, is to machine the barrel to lengthen the throat and slightly taper the lands to the throat end.

The feeding and ejecting problem is not a dirty gun. My guns are thoroughly cleaned after each session and lubricated. I switched to Wilson Combat magazines today and ran three round of Nosler at a time through the gun for a total of 30 rounds. I had no problem with feeding or ejecting. Feeding appears to be a Remington magazine problem when using the flat nose.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[noylj]

In general, a .45ACP case will drop into a chamber with about 1/16" separation from case head to the breech/barrel hood. If your cases are showing less excess head space, then your chamber is a bit short and may need to be reamed out.
I find that, given a good magazine, and most .45 magazines I have bought a fine, the problem you describe is a COL that is too short.
Since reliability is the first thing to achieve, you may need to try some other bullets. I would recommend a look at a 200gn L-SWC H&G #68 clone (most commercial casters offer such a bullet. You should be able to seat them practically shoulder flush with the case mouth and still have a decent COL for feeding. Other choice would be a conical, either a conical flat nose or a Montana Gold 200gn JCFP--their 185gn JHP may also be a good choice. All of these bullets are much less expensive than the Noslers and are, in general, able to win Bullseye matches day in and out.

 

[venomballistics]

quite familiar with that problem .. my springfields OEM barrel was the same way as well as fit so loose there was no point in trying to set it straight. so i got two replacement barrels ... one in 45 and the other in 400 corbon. after hand fitting both, I can swap between them at will and enjoy outstanding accuracy from each.
Might not be as cost effective as renting/borrowing a finish reamer to dress the lands. but its worth a thought.