OGCA show accident - OGCA Roberts Center Shows Canceled

Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Messages
2,393
Reaction score
5,954
Location
Upstate, SC
In another thread on the forum, someone mentioned a shocking accident at last weekend’s OGCA show in Clinton Co, Ohio.
I was not there. However, details of the incident are described here:

This Forum Costs Me $$$

This incident has been confirmed in various independent news sources. They are not hard to find, so I’ll refrain from posting them.

We must all be aware that the inherent potential dangers in handling firearms are always present and an accident can occur whenever basic safety precautions are relaxed or overlooked.
Consider the safety fundamentals that could’ve prevented this from happening:
1) Most importantly, when handling a gun, confirm it is unloaded, the chamber is empty, and the “source of ammunition” (magazine) is removed or rendered inoperative (open that cylinder!) if possible. Whether it’s on a table at a show or on the bench at the range, ask if you can confirm the unloaded status before handling.
2) When handing a gun to another person, open the action, confirm it is unloaded and hand it to the other person so they can visually confirm the same.
3) When a firearm is handed to you by another, either ask them to open the action or allow you to do so.
4) Don’t handle firearms whose loaded/unloaded status is not personally verified by you.
5) Be aware of the direction the muzzle is pointed at all times whenever a firearm is being handled, either by yourself or others!
(The more people and/or guns you’re around, the more important this is!)

Unfortunately, these rules only work when people have been trained to follow them. Once ingrained, through training, they become part of your gun handling regimen, and your observance of others when they are handling firearms.
Obviously, both the owner of the firearm at the OCGA show, and the person who discharged the firearm violated a number of the above rules and are both guilty parties of this negligent accident.
The show organizers also bear some of the guilt for relying on inadequate safety precautions and/or inspection practices.

Incidentally, the above rules are/were conditions for acquiring a Firearms Acquisition Certificate in more than one British Commonwealth country. One could be expected to pass a test by regional firearms officer before issuance of said permit. (And, they would try to trick you!).
Having been both a competitor and range officer on some of the most regulated ranges, in some very restrictive countries, I can assure you these rules work.

Clearly, the “zip tied action” practice is no guarantee of anything. It is a false indicator of safety status and led directly to sloppy gun handling.
Unfortunately, this show with either be cancelled permanently and/or new, more onerous rules, none of which will ever obviate potential accidents or be able to act as a substitute for poor firearms safety, will be enacted.

Let’s keep the two victims of this avoidable tragedy at the OCGA show in our thoughts and prayers, and hope a sensible investigation will lead to a more robust attitude towards firearms safety that still allows us to enjoy ourselves.
And, let’s use this accident to remind us to be attentive and vigilant in our own gun handling, and whenever with others in circumstances where guns are present.

I offer the above with my humble respect to all of our forum members.
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
I went to local gun show decades ago. Last year I decided to check out the local one here.

It was very crowded, very cramped spaces, muggy and hot inside the building, cost me $15 to enter. There were lots of guys lurking around that looked suspiciously like "criminal minds". :D

Some vendors were hawking their stuff as I walked by their booth. Some vendors were friendly and knowledgeable.

After about 3 trips around the booths, I walked out and decided since I'm not a collector I probably will never attend another local gun show.

Should ammo be sold at a gun show? :confused:
 
The show organizers also bear some of the guilt for relying on inadequate safety precautions and/or inspection practices.

Is it realistic to expect show promoters to inspect dealer guns? I don't know how large the OGCA show is but it would be impractical to expect such an inspection at a large show like Tulsa. I was there when a .410 was shot and injured a couple of people and I was at a show in Texas Stadium years ago when a round was fired through the roof. (They missed the big hole.)
 
As I said in the other thread, we'll be lucky if we don't lose that venue for the OCGA show.

As far as not attending that particular show because of things like this, it won't stop me. Everything I like is older and isn't in gun shops for the most part. Because it ain't a Glock.
 
Last edited:
I was there at my table when the incident happened, really screwed up the day for a lot of people. They shut down the area where it happened while the Sheriffs office investigated it. I was at the other end, anyone who wanted to stay came down to our end, quite a few people simply left.

Very troubling, I've been a member for years and can only remember one other case of a gun being fired at the OGCA show in all that time. All guns being brought in by members are inspected at the door, vendors are expected to inspect and tie the guns they have and security people are normally circulating around and checking to make sure all guns on tables have zipties in them. Reportedly the gun was on a table with a tie on it but had a round in the chamber.

Many people I talked to felt that guns should be tied with the bolt open or have a chamber flag with a tie so that it is more clearly not loaded. Things like this are bad for gun shows, and I'm sure there will be repercussions from it. OGCA is a large show, lots of members and I hate that this happened. Hopefully the injured will make a full recovery and we can find a way to ensure something like this doesn't happen again.

As a side note, I ran the gun show circuit for years when we had the gun shop. Unfortunately, I can recall quite a few discharges at shows over the years. Far too often it is a table holders gun involved in such incidents. I can only remember a couple of cases where someone attending the show was responsible, usually the guys checking guns at the door do a good job of preventing a loaded gun being brought in. Those of us who have tables need to be more alert and responsible at making sure our guns are actually clear and maybe security should be more active in making sure table holders have actually checked their guns before they go on the table. Don't want to have this stuff happen again.
 
Decades ago, I was at a local gun show and the announcement came over the PA system that a live round had been found in a gun on one of the display tables, ammunition is to be kept out of all firearms at the show. It happens, either out of complacency or with intent. When I was going to shows, I also noticed poor muzzle discipline. I'd frequently see muzzles not pointed up or down, but towards me or other people. Between this and more junk, arts & crafts, food vendors, and antiques dealers at shows, plus deals that were worse than what I could get at local gun shops, I quit going.
 
With the low volume of gun handling by any British subject, I would imagine that the likelihood of an AD is very low, especially since gun shows, as we know them, aren't allowed. With the number of gun shows in the US being so plentiful, AD's are a very rare occurrence. Of course this isn't to say that the safety rules shouldn't be followed. Many untrained individuals seem to gravitate towards putting their index finger on the trigger when grasping a gun. All this being said, I'll take our freedoms over the Brits' draconian laws any day.
 
This was at an OGCA show in Columbus in the early 1970s. There was a AD at the table next to the one I was standing at, Everyone close to that table ran for the exits including me. I saw the guy who was shot hit the floor but not the actual shooting, so I never knew the circumstances. I later heard that he was not seriously wounded.
 
Last edited:
This was at an OGCA show in Columbus in the early 1970s. There was a AD at the table next to the one I was standing at, Everyone close to that table ran for the exits including me. I saw the guy who was shot hit the floor but not the actual shooting, so I never knew the circumstances. I later heard that he was not seriously wounded.

That particular AD was caused by someone intentionally putting a round in a vintage SAA. The dealer had no ammo for that gun! It had been inspected before the show opened to the crowd.

When guns are zip tied, you cannot check to see the load statis. We have proved again that assumption can be a killer!

Ivan
 
(snip)

Many people I talked to felt that guns should be tied with the bolt open or have a chamber flag with a tie so that it is more clearly not loaded. Things like this are bad for gun shows, and I'm sure there will be repercussions from it. OGCA is a large show, lots of members and I hate that this happened. Hopefully the injured will make a full recovery and we can find a way to ensure something like this doesn't happen again.

(Snip).

Chamber flags may be a reasonable precaution, moving forward.
 
Another Thought

Several years ago at a dealer in Prescott, someone loaded at least 3 different weapons while in the store. Yes, the employees were not watching or were busy, but just another thing for us to watch for.

Terry
 
Question...

I looked for details but couldn't find any that weren't blocked somehow. In what manner was the zip tie on the bolt gun to supposedly render it safe? I've seen semi guns zip tied through the mag well and the chamber, which seems fairly idiot proof, but whatever this dealer did wasn't much of a safety device.
 
This could not have happened without breaching most or all of Cooper's rules. Shameful. Complacency and firearms should never mix. I was taught to hand firearms to another with the action still open after inspecting it.

When any of my friends ask to go shooting with me, I give them a test without their knowledge. I hand them an unloaded handgun that is cleared and safe. If they:

If they DO touch the trigger
If they DON'T verifiy that it is clear/made safe
If they DO muzzle me or any other living thing

They DON'T go shooting with me.
 
Yesterday, I talked to a nearby table holder of the incident. He said the owner had bought the gun in a flea market the previous week, never checked if t was loaded and put a tie on the .308 Mossburg bolt rifle, and set it on his table. Two people came by, looked at the gun, and in the act of placing the gun back on the table, it was fired. They both ran, and he was not aware if they had been caught. First person shot through hip (pelvis) and into thigh of second person. The table holder knew one of the victims, and said he was 73 years old.

I arrived 1:30 that afternoon, and heard a few theories of what went down. I saw police load a rifle into their vehicles, and clean up crime scene tape in the building. Apparently, everyone inside was detained for a couple hours.

The rifle I saw being loaded into the police vehicle looked similar to either a Mossberg Patriot or MVP LC.
 
Last edited:
Yesterday, I talked to a nearby table holder of the incident. He said the owner had bought the gun in a flea market the previous week, never checked if t was loaded and put a tie on the .308 Mossburg bolt rifle, and set it on his table.
What is the first rule of firearms safety? Always assume the firearm is loaded. Sounds like an act of complacency and complacency will get you into trouble every time. :(
 
What is the first rule of firearms safety? Always assume the firearm is loaded. Sounds like an act of complacency and complacency will get you into trouble every time. :(

Or worse yet, as in this case, got someone else into trouble, two innocent bystanders. I've done some dumb things in my life and am thankful that they only hurt me. I've never had a ND in my life and am alert everytime I touch a weapon so it doesn't happen.

But I don't for a minute think I'm above it, even Bill Jordan killed a fellow Border Patrol Agent with an "empty" revolver.
 
In this case I guess Accidental Discharge could be the correct term but in the Firearms Instructor world it is called ND - negligent discharge. There is really no such thing as an accidental discharge - guns don’t just accidentally go off. There was negligence here as noted. Obviously the seller at the flea market if that story is correct, the seller at the gun show, the show organizers for not doing or requiring safety checks….
 
Last edited:
The OGCA is not your ordinary gun show. It is open only to members and their invited guests. You do not have jerky, Legos etc, only gun (and knife) related items. I am not sure how the table holders guns are checked.

I have been around other negligent discharges mostly at range qualifications. Those ND's were after being read the basic safety rules and taking a written test on them. For every 5 people on the line there was 1 state certified instructor. Also there were RSO's watching others off the line reloading etc. And still ND's happened. Very rare but they still occurred.
 
Back
Top